Racing Seats..

[Pointdsm]

I've been looking at buying a new seat for my car, something that will actually hold me in my seat, and not cause me to be tossed around like a ragdoll. I've wanted to sit in DIZMM, but now that car is gone. Any ideas? I might just buy a Summit seat, something very cheap, but will work(only for race days).

Also, where does a guy find a good place to buy a safety harness?

[Crazy Jon]

summit is a good place for belts if you want new.

[TomKat]

Crow makes a really nice harness and is a lot cheaper than Simpson.

If you are putting in a harness however I'd do some research. A harness will only be effective if you have a roll cage/roll bar and racing seat. Those 3 items must go together otherwise you will actually be worse off in an accident with a harness on compared to your factory seat belt. :?

Also keep in mind it is very important where the mounting points for the harness go. For the shoulder straps to be mounted correctly you will need a roll bar or harness bar.

[Stash]

I wouldn't buy a seat without being able to sit in it first. Also, I have bought some cheap ones before and they sucked, very flimsy and no more supportive than the stock seats. Its worth spending the money on a nice seat.

[Pointdsm]

Crow makes a really nice harness and is a lot cheaper than Simpson.

If you are putting in a harness however I'd do some research. A harness will only be effective if you have a roll cage/roll bar and racing seat. Those 3 items must go together otherwise you will actually be worse off in an accident with a harness on compared to your factory seat belt. :?

Also keep in mind it is very important where the mounting points for the harness go. For the shoulder straps to be mounted correctly you will need a roll bar or harness bar.

I know this(through my last week of reading). I might be able to get a discount on simpson belts though through beway racing, since my family does help out a late model stock car team around here. I am getting a harness, and a seat, and the car will get a roll cage. I also know the rules of installing the harness. The shoulder straps should be attached or at best angled, no lower than the drivers shoulders. How Maccaaiiiyaaa has his is extremely dangerous, he needs to change his setup. (there will be a cross bar behind the drivers seat, much like the Uber Evo has.

[LSEGHATCH]

Best bet would be to find a used quality seat and fabricate brackes to fit your application. You can't really go wrong with recaro/bride/sparco since you aren't a huge person and as for how low they sit that is up to you when you build the brackets. Look at Honda-Tech or similar sites and something is bound to turn up.

[EVILUTION]

Oh please..... the roll over myth has been busted time and time again. More secure is more secure with or without a roll bar. PERIOD.

As for the cage/harness comments.... a cage is only safer if you are in a collision while wearing a helmet. In reality, welding or bolting in a multi-point cage is one of the most dangerous things you can do to your street car. Even if well designed and wickedly fabricated, cages are meant for race cars and drivers wearing helmets. A cage can dramatically improve chassis rigidity, but this huge increase also means that energy that was supposed to be absorbed by crumble zones can now be directly transmitted to your body. In a high-impact collision that sweet chromoly tubing can crack open your unprotected head like a watermelon.

Cages also negatively impact many of the existing safety features found in newer cars. Passive safety restraints such as seat belts and active systems such as airbags are designed to work within a fixed amount of space and cannot account for the cabin intrusion of a safety cage.

Adding a good harness with anti submarine technology is safer than sticking with the stock belts alone.

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/schroth/street-legal/rallye

[Pointdsm]

The roll over theory is that with a true 5-point harness, if the roof collapses, the submarine belt will keep you upright, causing your head to get crushed as well. The cage I am building will not even allow my head to hit it, it will be behind the front seats enough, as I have seen pictures of the exact cage installed. I don't have airbags in my car, and I will maintain my stock safety belts as well. The car WILL NOT be driven nearly as much as it was this year(for DD purpose). I feel I will not be in danger because of me hitting the cage, and crumply zones will still apply, as the cage will only be a 6-point cage, and not go behind the rear shock towers.

[EVILUTION]

Find a set of used EVO8 seats and get a good harness. Thats all you need.

I would say get EVO9 seats but they go for about a grand where as the EVO8 seats sell for about $700 a set.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lancer-Evolution-IX-Black-Recaro-Front-Seats-Evo-8-9-MR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33701QQihZ009QQitemZ 190170862560
http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-Mitsubishi-Evolution-MR-8-VIII-OEM-Recaro-Seats_W0QQitemZ220169311944QQihZ012QQcategoryZ3370 1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A cage for your car is bad news. Imagine this:
http://www.wreckedscions.com/albums/SciontC/DSC02643.jpg

The car crumpled and took a lot of the impact. If it had a cage, the impact would have been a lot harder and the driver would be injured more seriously.

True race cars have roll cages, but then again there's also a lot more safety equipment - Hans devices, safety seats, etc. On a street car having a metal tube within 10" of your head is a skull fracture just waiting to happen.

Energy dissipation is what saves drivers:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c360/smokedmustang/000_0080.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c360/smokedmustang/000_0082-1.jpg

[Pointdsm]

$700, well i just want one seat, i could care less about the passenger. Still, thats a shit ton of money guy. I don't need something to drive everyday in, my stock seat works great for that. I want something for race days only that will hold me tight :wink:

[EVILUTION]

Then just get a harness.

[Pointdsm]

I literally get throw around in my car during an autocross. I'm sick of it, so i need a seat to hold me in place, as well as a harness. The cage is for the harness and for strength.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

there is a big discussion on this on the DSMtuners forum. A simple 4 point road-race hoopty cage is perfectly fine in a street car as long as its properly installed. Now if your talking about a full out 10 point cage, then yes that is dangerous without a helmet.

[VPT]

Just put pading on the bars you fruit cakes!

[EVILUTION]

^^ Padding will not prevent a concussion.

No point in arguing, a cage in a street car is very dangerous.

PDSM.... try the harness first then get a seat if needed.

You might want to look into something like this:
http://www.cg-lock.com/faq.html

That is the route I'm going. For lapping days you wont need much more than that. Autoxing may require a harness.

[TomKat]

True. If you have a cage you should always be wearing a helmet. :?

If you have just a harness and your car rolls over. Kiss your head goodbye.

Food for thought. Some safety people debate on newer cars that you may be better off not wearing a helmet in a crash. :? More food for thought.

[Pointdsm]

Well, in order to have a harness, i need away to mount it correctly. I could just put a harness bar in, but then I might as well just get the full cage.

[devlish]

Well, in order to have a harness, i need away to mount it correctly. I could just put a harness bar in, but then I might as well just get the full cage.

"then you might as well just get the whole cage" ???? there is a HUGE difference in all aspects between a harness bar, and a full cage.

price
comfortability
and tearing up the car

are the top 3 MAJOR differences. to me, it's not a "might as well" decision between those two items, they are worlds apart. not even close.

but it's your call.

[EVILUTION]

Some aftermarket seat ideas....
http://3ayemstudios.com/photos/evo/2007-final/13.jpg
http://3ayemstudios.com/photos/evo/2007-final/12.jpg
http://3ayemstudios.com/photos/evo/2007-final/11.jpg
http://3ayemstudios.com/photos/evo/2007-final/15.jpg

This is the guys office:
http://3ayemstudios.com/photos/evo/2007-final/studio-2.jpg

[Pointdsm]

I love those seats! That office is equally awesome, much like the office I desire.

Kurt, the roll cage is $200(the 6-point cage). That comes pre-bent, pre-cut(probably need to be trimmed a bit though). Now, compare that to building a harness bar(because they do not make them for 1g's), then have that welded in. The price is not as different as you think. Comfort, I plan on keeping the rear seats(not using them EVER, but just having them there for looks sake), and none of the other bars tear anything up except the two rear bars, which I will pay attention to to look clean. Last, the car isn't comfortbable now, but I enjoy driving it ALOT, much like EVIL does with his Evo, this may actually cause my to bike to work more than i did last summer(not at culvers btw.)

FYI, harness will be purchased first, then rollcage, the seat will be the last thing purchased, and the car will not be driven(besides around the block) until everything is perfect, I want to do this right.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

A simple 4 point hoopty cage is not that dangerous as long as you wear your harness to keep you from flying around and hitting the bars.

[TomKat]

FYI, harness will be purchased first, then rollcage, the seat will be the last thing purchased, and the car will not be driven(besides around the block) until everything is perfect, I want to do this right.

I think you have the order messed up here. The rollcage or harness bar will determine what kind of harness you need to buy.

[Pointdsm]

What do you mean TK? A harness is a harness, I will attach it to the rollcage behind the drivers seat, much like a harness bar is.

[Pointdsm]

I don't know how post the information so everyone can see it, but for those that can get on DSMTuners, this is the exact cage installed.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192909

[Stash]

DSMtuners is a public forum, anybody can see it. :? I would say to just go with a harness bar.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

i had roll bar in my previous :cry: talon and it was alright. sucks for daily driving. If a harness bar is the same price, go with a harness bar.

[EVILUTION]

I would simply try the harness before getting either a harness bar or cage. I had just a harness in my PGT and it held me in the factory seat quite nicely. If I had something similar to an EVO seat I would have been 100% snug.

So why is it that you want a cage or bar?

Just find a salvage EVO8 seat with brackets. If you only want it for racing you can find a worn or stained one cheap. I would have to have matching seats myself.

I'm not sure if you spoke with Devlish at all but he has aftermarket seats in Devlish that are very nice and not to costly. I'm sure they would be fine with a harness.

Personally I don't like wearing a harness. I use the CG lock.

[Stash]

Harness bar will be cheaper period.
Sure the cage is only 200, then 150 to ship and installation isn't going to be too cheap, it will add up fast. Money would be better put towards a nicer seat.

[EVILUTION]

Any kind of pipe in your car is a bad idea. Not only are they dangerous but they add weight, attract police, and are a PITA for passengers.

Instead of rednecking out your car.... dress it up with better seats. You'll reduce weight, add pimp points, and keep you planted.

Go to Tuners.... click on gallery and search for "seat". You'll get dozens of hits.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

I will have some 1g stuff shortly PDSM if you are interested.

http://i20.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/c1/c6/983d_12.JPG

http://i7.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/c1/c6/b1f6_12.JPG

[Pointdsm]

That harness is mounted incorrectly....

I need to have a harness bar, how do you think i would mount the harness Evil? A harness bar would have to be made anyway, nobody makes them for a 1g.

[devlish]

PDSM is correct, that harness is mounted VERY UNSAFE in that 1G race car dizmm. it goes directly down, it should be at no less than a 45 degree angle. or flat is better even. not your fault, not your car... yet.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

the seats, roll cage, harness and all is not even mounted in the car. its all just set in the car. the cage is not even welded in. its just there for fitment purpose.

[Stash]

I will have some 1g stuff shortly PDSM if you are interested.

http://i20.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/c1/c6/983d_12.JPG

http://i7.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/c1/c6/b1f6_12.JPG

Are those Sparco Fighter seats? Are you going to be aquiring them and selling. I may be interested.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

yes they are the fighter seats 8)

as for selling them, not sure. they are BRAN new never used, they were test mounted and thats it. I may keep them for DIZMMv2. They are $1200 bran new each.

[Pointdsm]

So is this DIZMM V.2? I'll spend tonight looking at seats, all i want is something black(for cosmetics).

[Stash]

You mean 1200 for the pair? If someone payed that much a piece they are a fool.

1100 shipped for a pair: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SPARCO-RACING-SEAT-FIGHTER-RED-PAIR-FREE-SHIP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33701QQihZ015QQite mZ250183878943QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

You can find them all day long for that price.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

So is this DIZMM V.2? I'll spend tonight looking at seats, all i want is something black(for cosmetics).

negative, however i should finish it and make a 10sec pass:
http://i10.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/c1/a2/2c82_12.JPG
http://i2.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/c1/a2/2f7e_12.JPG
http://i7.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/c1/a2/4b97_12.JPG

[turbo chick]

Where the heck is that car parked???? Looks like it is out in the wilderness somehwere? those seats are gonna have squirrel bites take out of them!!!!!! :D

[devlish]

i'l give you $28 for that pair of seats with squirrel bites. that's a good deal for you. think it over.

dizmm V.2 has not been found yet if i'm not mistaken. my guess is this... when you see andy with a suntan, keep an eye out for dizmm V.2

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

when you see andy with a suntan, keep an eye out for dizmm V.2

fur-sure

[TomKat]

I will have some 1g stuff shortly PDSM if you are interested.

http://i20.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/c1/c6/983d_12.JPG

http://i7.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/c1/c6/b1f6_12.JPG

OMG. Here is a great example of someone who doesn't know what they are doing trying to be safe. Sure there is a rollbar, but look where they attached the harness. :shock:

If PDSM installs just a harness the big question is: where will he attach the shoulder belts????? And remember if you just so happen to roll your car over while wearing that harness you can kiss your head/neck goodbye. Not like that ever happens while pushing your car at a track. :roll:

PDSM a harness is not a harness. When you order one if the person knows what they are doing will ask you how you are going to attach it. Based upon that information they will sell you what you need.

[EVILUTION]

A harness doesn't require a harness bar. As stated earlier the spinal compression injury info is a hoax. With a seat just like Dizmm pictured you can mount the harness directly to the floor behind the seat or anchor it to the seat belt bolts for the rear seat.

Bars are simply a bad idea. Most people have them for camera mounts as they are definately less safe than having nothing at all.

[TomKat]

A harness doesn't require a harness bar. As stated earlier the spinal compression injury info is a hoax. With a seat just like Dizmm pictured you can mount the harness directly to the floor behind the seat or anchor it to the seat belt bolts for the rear seat.

Bars are simply a bad idea. Most people have them for camera mounts as they are definately less safe than having nothing at all.

HUH???? OK Evil. Um yeah. Do you have something against PDSM?

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

OMG. Here is a great example of someone who doesn't know what they are doing trying to be safe. Sure there is a rollbar, but look where they attached the harness. :shock:

If PDSM installs just a harness the big question is: where will he attach the shoulder belts????? And remember if you just so happen to roll your car over while wearing that harness you can kiss your head/neck goodbye. Not like that ever happens while pushing your car at a track. :roll:

PDSM a harness is not a harness. When you order one if the person knows what they are doing will ask you how you are going to attach it. Based upon that information they will sell you what you need.

the seats, harness, and roll cage is NOT ATTATCHED in this car. They are simply in the car for fitment purpose. the cage is not welded in, the harness is not mounted to anything, the seats are set in place not even bolted down.

[TomKat]

Good. Please keep in mine that is not the way to attach the shoulder belts. :shock:

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

Good. Please keep in mine that is not the way to attach the shoulder belts. :shock:

i can if I want.

it dont matter anyways, the car is being parted out.

[Pointdsm]

Agreed, the phone call will be made after my class i'm in now, trust me i know how to mount the harness in a safe way. The "hoax" is not a hoax, its simply phyiscs.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

Agreed, the phone call will be made after my class i'm in now, trust me i know how to mount the harness in a safe way. The "hoax" is not a hoax, its simply phyiscs.

please give scientific information to prove that its not a hoax.

[EVILUTION]

^^^ In recent years many studies have proven the safest place to be in a roll over crash is snuggly in the drivers seat. A harness is not going to compress your spine. Its going to keep you in the drivers seat. This was a problem when vehicles weren't designed to prevent roof crush but these days cars are designed to prevent cockpit intrusion. Modern engineering has pretty much eliminated the need for a cheap ass aftermarket roll bar. In fact most roll bars prevent the proper crush sequence from taking place. Bad bad bad.

Partial ejection is the most significant factor in roll over crash. Current seatbelt designs are only partially effective in a rollover, providing little restraint against partial ejection and head excursion outside the vehicle. Contact with the road or being crushed between the vehicle structure and road surface is the number one cause of serious injury.

Vehicle design changes have greatly reduced risk and severity of serious injuries arising in roll over crashes.

(i) Side window integrity (by plastic glazing) to prevent head excursions outside the vehicle.

(ii) Increased roof framing and A and B pillar strength, for axial loading and side-sway loading.

(iii) Interior energy absorbing padding to head contact surfaces - the roof itself and the framing above the door.

(iv) Modified door/roof training to reduce risk of occupant's head being able to 'lock in' against this framing and hence result in excessive spinal loading.

(v) Improved performance of seat belts to reduce vertical movements of occupants.

(vi) Improve door integrity and add energy absorbing side padding.


If you are worried about spinal compression upon a frontal accident then don't get a harness at all. The ONLY way to properly run harnesses is with a fixed back racing seat that accomodates 5+ point harnesses, 5 or 6 point harnesses, a roll bar, SFI padding, and a helmet. If you do that then you need to drive like that on the street as well.

Furthermore....The majority incedents with people getting their spine crushed were in accidents where catastrophic injury was unavoidable.

Would you like another safety tidbit.... SCCA has recommended not to use full-face helmets in the car if the airbags are active, because the bag can hit the chin gard, and push up the helmet violently enough to shatter your jaw. Either get a switch to deactivate the airbag system when using a helmet, or use an open face helmet instead.

[TomKat]

If you are worried about spinal compression upon a frontal accident then don't get a harness at all. The ONLY way to properly run harnesses is with a fixed back racing seat that accomodates 5+ point harnesses, 5 or 6 point harnesses, a roll bar, SFI padding, and a helmet. If you do that then you need to drive like that on the street as well.


I think this is the best advice. Factory engineers know what the hell they are doing. Start messing with this and you are asking for trouble.

A harness may keep you in your seat, but unless you go all the way with the safety equipment you will be at risk.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

if you are going to be only auto-xing, who cares where the harness is mounted. if it holds you in place than fine. your not going to roll your car in an auto-x. keep your factory seat belt there so you can wear that for daily driver, and then use the harness for just racing.

[TomKat]

I've seen a lot of roll overs at auto x events. They usually aren't that bad however. At lapping days roll overs can get very serious.

I've seen bad frontal impacts also at timed events. You want to be sure to mount the harness properly to avoid spinal compression.

You should care when you are driving at the limit.

[Pointdsm]

Exactly. I'll wear my harness for lapping days, hell, whenever I am on a track I will. We seem to forget the STI at shawano rolling over, that could have been the autocross only a month later. I am going to get a harness, no doubt about that. I am also going to find a new seat, I am torn between a cage(at least 4-point), or a custom harness bar. I have other things I'd like to buy as well...But a harness will be purchased, and worn only while at the track.

[devlish]

harness bar. will double as a camera mount. yippee

you could even have it mount down low, and at the b-pillars. and remove for on the street with only 4 bolts. i've considered this for the Omni, and may just do so this next summer.

[Pointdsm]

Well, the purpose of the bar will be harness mounting, so that comes first, not the camera angle. I think i might just go with a 4-point cage(main hoop and two legs going back), then I could weld the bar to the main hoop and always add the door legs later.

[Crazy Jon]

Thats the same cage i got for ghost. Belts are a must for autox

I've never been a fan of harnesses for autocross. I think I have a better feel for what the car is doing with a regular 3 point belt. But that might just be me. A lot of the top National guys seem to prefer harnesses. :?

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

i need a harness otherwise I spend time with one hand on the wheel and the other holding me in place. it varies too depending on the seats/car you have.

[Greg86z28]

I like these seats the best. They do an awesome job holding me in place.
http://www.legacyseatcovers.com/1994_ford_ranger_DCP01021.jpg

[TomKat]

LOL :lol:

[turbo chick]

I could use a harness for autocrosses. My butt never stays in the seat. It's way worse at lapping days too!!!! I think I need a bigger butt! :?

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

I think I need a bigger butt! :?


:oops:

[devlish]

I could use a harness for autocrosses. My butt never stays in the seat. It's way worse at lapping days too!!!! I think I need a bigger butt! :? start the holiday eating early.

[Pointdsm]

I think a childs seat might work better for you :lol: . You can get those with harnesses too :D .

I called Furo last night about the roll cage(sorry VPT, you will get another PM as well when the time gets closer). I'm going to get a harness soon, and try that with the stock seat first, but the cage will go in for sure.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

I think a childs seat might work better for you :lol: . You can get those with harnesses too :D .

I called Furo last night about the roll cage(sorry VPT, you will get another PM as well when the time gets closer). I'm going to get a harness soon, and try that with the stock seat first, but the cage will go in for sure.

I will have a cage for a 1g PDSM that I would sell you for fairly cheap.

[Pointdsm]

Oh...i'll look at those pictures again, thanks DIZMM. Furo would only make me a Chromoly cage, which would be cool 8) .