studded tires??

[krazyk]

Well it looks pretty basic and i can figure out how to do it..
but is there any real science into how many studs per tire or what type of tire width you should go for??? etc..

only 14s ive been able to find to stud are 175s and I dont wanna go overkill on it with studs..

[TomKat]

You can put on too many. Are you going with bolts?

http://www.fvscc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443

[krazyk]

Yup I bought 110 hardened bolts for each fire in 5/16th size 1.5". Long.. might get 1" depending on how far they stick out

[krazyk]

ill be taking the bolts back and getting 1" bolts, the 1.5" seemed way way too long and fleet farm doesnt have any bulk 1.25" bolts.

[devlish]

you got a stud sharpener? :-)

[Dizmm]

ill be taking the bolts back and getting 1" bolts, the 1.5" seemed way way too long and fleet farm doesnt have any bulk 1.25" bolts.

1inch will meet most studded tires rules.

grade 5 or grade 8? with only 1inch long studs you will probably be fine at grade 5.

Most use 1/4 diameter bolts.

[krazyk]

I got grade 5 and 1". Took me 2 hours to do one tire with 94 studs lol

[krazyk]

Should I add more?? each sets about 3" apart http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391949_10150458054543306_501493305_8594137_2130407 436_n.jpg
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/390862_10150458054738306_501493305_8594138_1495507 707_n.jpg

[snoxracer183]

I would add two more all the way down the middle at a minimum. You could add more to the outside but just watch you don't start deforming the tire

[Dizmm]

I'd add a few more.

[Dizmm]

hmmmm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohkpcaim6EU

[05Saab]

Wow, that's an interesting way, never would've thought of that

[Shane]

Interesting! Would be a bitch to replace if you broke a tip off tho I'd think.

[TomKat]

Might work for a bike, but I don't think it would work for a heavy car.

I bet they'd just get pushed back into the tire.

[DoWork]

Might work for a bike, but I don't think it would work for a heavy car.

I bet they'd just get pushed back into the tire.

Not to be an ass, but how?

I would think if you ran a big washer back by the head of the nail on the inside of the tire so it doesnt pull out, and maybe put a few more tack welds on the outside, it would do pretty well. As long as the welds are good, I dont see how it would drop back through. I dont know though...I've never studded a tire before.

[TomKat]

They were pounding nuts onto non threaded nails. Without threads to hold the nuts in place I'd guess they'd come off eventually.

[bfarroo]

I'd bet the nails are to soft and the weight/force of a car going around a corner will bend them over almost immediately. He does also weld the nuts all on so they shouldn't come lose.

[Dizmm]

I'd bet the nails are to soft and the weight/force of a car going around a corner will bend them over almost immediately. He does also weld the nuts all on so they shouldn't come lose.

i was thinking the same. if you can pound a nut on them, without the nail backing out, it must be somewhat soft metal.

Tk was breaking grade 8 bolts on his RS last year with 1.25in long bolts.

[TomKat]

I didn't know the nuts were welded.

[Formula95]

When picking a tire do you want a bald tire a tire with some tread or doesn't it really make a difference.

[Shane]

tread will help you if you get off track and into the snow, or if there is loose snow on the track, it helps dig threw the snow and get the studs to some ice

[Dizmm]

yup, tread will help like Shane said.

[Deadly_Evolution]

Anyone know what you're paying per:

Bolt
Nut
Washer

[Dizmm]

figure $300 to build a set using about 600 total bolts. Thats about 50 cents per. I'm including the glue and bits to sharpen the bolts in my costs.

[Deadly_Evolution]

Was looking for a cost break down, as I'm seeking bulk quantities to see if there is cost savings at all, and exploring other options and ideas.


Also are you guys using fully threaded or partly threaded bolts just so I know what to look for.

[krazyk]

The first tire I did cost me about $15. Via fleet farm... 155. Hardened 1" bolts.. lock nuts and 2 washers per bolt... I used 5/16th bolts

[TomKat]

When picking a tire do you want a bald tire a tire with some tread or doesn't it really make a difference.

I know I'm going against the grain here, but I don't think tread makes a hill of beans of a difference in the snow. You've got bolts sticking out of your tires for Pete's sake,

Be interesting to do a side by side test.

[DoWork]

Sarge was saying something about bald tires last year when he had an "off". It was something to the effect of him disliking using completely bald tires because if you get into powder or any deeper snow, there is no traction at all.

[Formula95]

I have tires with half tread and wasn't sure if I would have problems with snow build up.

[SgtRauksauff]

Thinking about it more, I think it's not so much the bald tread area, as the bald shoulders of the tires, or maybe the profile itself. The smooth curvature of the Azenis allowed the tire to float up on top of the snow faster, and the tires are wide enough and the car light enough that they sort of act as flotation devices in a way. Plus I'm not densely bolted, only 108 bolts per tire, if I remember right. And, the bolts are well away from the shoulder, since if they're to close they will rip the tire apart there.

here's the closest-up pic I can think of with them mounted:
http://sharkpork.com/gallery/d/3682-2/P1010314.JPG


here's the breakdown of what i got, basically the same as what Nigel used a while back. It's all in the big "how to stud-up" thread on the FVSCC forum:

90566A029 - nut - pack of 100 - $3.38/pack (thin nylock, half the height of a regular one.)
92620A542 - bolt - pack of 100 - $10.30/pack (grade 8 zinc plated, 1/4"-20 x 1")
91090A108 - big washer - pack of 100 - $3.90/pack (zinc plated steel washer)
98023A029 - small washer - pack of 100 - $6.00/pack (grade 8 zinc plated washer)

I got 5 packs of each, as I only had 108 bolts per tire. This was four rows of 27 bolts, at the intersection points of the tread blocks. on the azenis. Were I to do it again, I'd probably add the 5th row that I skipped, possibly even adding a sixth. (135 or 162 bolts, respectively).

--sarge

[TomKat]

It will feel like there is no traction at all because you've just gone from a lot of grip to a situation where there isn't much grip no matter what.


I've driven through deep snow with lots of different studded tires. I personally don't think that treaded tires will be much better than bald ones.

[DoWork]

I have no idea, I was just offering what I had heard. I've never driven on a studded car tire. I wanted to build a set for this year, but funds got focused elsewhere on the car, and I didnt bother to buy another set of wheels.

Plus, at the rate this weather is going, we'll be lucky if any of us get to ice race more than 2-3 times lol

[TomKat]

but funds got focused elsewhere on the car, and I didnt bother to buy another set of wheels.



Tires are the most important part of the car for going fast at handling type events.

Money would be spent much more wisely on tires/rims and track time.

[krazyk]

I would think it could help somewhat when off track in the snow.. Ever look at mudding tires before?? huge lugs and they go through a ton, but once the lugs are mudded up they cannot go through shit... I could see where having tread on a tire would throw a little more snow away from where the tire is spinning and help it get traction sooner

[SgtRauksauff]

Thing is, the actual conditions on track on the lake change so much (even from one run to the next) that what might work great at one point will make you get stuck at the starting line five minutes later.......

--sarge

[DoWork]

Tires are the most important part of the car for going fast at handling type events.

Money would be spent much more wisely on tires/rims and track time.

You have a valid point...

Thing is, the actual conditions on track on the lake change so much (even from one run to the next) that what might work great at one point will make you get stuck at the starting line five minutes later.......

--sarge

Yeah, that was what he was saying lol

[Dizmm]

I drove my bolted tires and Nigel's bolted tires back to back. Nigel used brand new tires(full tread). The difference was night/day when you hit a snow covered spot.

Full-tread bolted tires will beat a no-tread bolted tire when there is snow covering the ice.

[TomKat]

Apples to oranges. Those two sets of tires have a big difference in the stud size and number.

I want a test of two tires with equal studs. One with full tread snow tire and the other on a slick. Meh - this isn't going to happen.

For stud performance a stiff performance summer tire with little tread seems to work best. A full tread snow tire will have a softer carcas. Well maybe this year with a bunch of people buildiing studded tires we can do more comparisons.

Kyle - Build two of your tires with brand new snow tires then two with high perf. summer tires.

[Dizmm]

Apples to oranges. Those two sets of tires have a big difference in the stud size and number.

this was his old set that Dan Pina was running. same size bolts.

Once on snow, your tire needs tread. this is a No-Brainer!

[Formula95]

Thanks for the info/opinions. I'll use tires with tread seeing as my poor firebird doesn't have all wheel and will need all the help it can get.

[TomKat]

this was his old set that Dan Pina was running. same size bolts.


I beg to differ. Those two sets of tires are a lot different.

Anyways. If you can afford to stud new snow tires go for it. Looking forward to seeing a Firebird on the ice.

[SgtRauksauff]

rally tires plus bolts - win win win win win.

[TomKat]

Those would be really stiff. Advantage.

They aren't that great on ice or snow. Disadvantage.

[SgtRauksauff]

stiff, plus the bolts, double advantage.

deep lugs to paddle through the snow, combined with the bolts, another advantage

plus, they're rally tires. winner!

[Dizmm]

Stiff sidewall = good for lots of grip, but bad little grip.

I really think the ultimate setup would be some semi-aggressive all-season tires, new obviously, with 1.25in long bolts. On a full tread tire, after sharpening, i bet the bolts would still be SCCA legal.