June 23/24 2012 MAPerformance Proving Grounds Discussion thread

[Dizmm]

I know the event is a ways away, but as the organizer we need to start discussing things now.

When: June 23/24th 2012


I've heard several ideas from many, and I'd love for you guys to post them up.




Workers:
1. Andy S
2. Tom H
3. Micaiah H
4. Kevin R
5.
6. Dave H
7. Mike V
8. Nick H
9. Kurt C
10. Jeff J
11. Noah K.
12. Shane P
13. Kirsten M
14. The-Moss
15. Patric H.
16. Ashley S.
17. Collin V.
18. Jordan K.
19. Alex D.
20. Daltan D.

If you are on this last and do not plan on coming for sure, please let me know!

[snoxracer183]

HPDE and HSAX laps on Saturday. This way we can run sunrise to sunset essentially.

Autocross only Sunday. Event can go faster, be done early, so we can make it back to WI at a decent time

[Dizmm]

Dan said there may be talk of doing a 3 day event. maybe parking lot auto-x friday afternoon?

At the last CWSCC meeting we talked about transponder/RFID timing.

http://www.hardcardsystems.com/Home.html

I'd really like to do our open lapping along with timed laps the same day (NASA TT Style)

[TomKat]

Friday afternoon auto x? Hmmm. I like the idea, but wonder what kind of turnout you'd get.

[Dizmm]

Friday afternoon auto x? Hmmm. I like the idea, but wonder what kind of turnout you'd get.

The thing with the parking lot auto-x is there is no additional expense. We dont need a good turnout to make it worth it.

[Draven8795]

To make this better I think we really need to look at transponders.

[Dizmm]

To make this better I think we really need to look at transponders.

See post #3. RFID timing


I want to also start a list of workers. If you want to work, please let me know in this thread.

[supradjza80]

I want to work!

[snoxracer183]

Working

I'd more label the Friday afternoon AutoX more of a test and tune as only 2 people would show up...

Now a Friday night AutoX under those parking lot lights would be awesome!!!!!

[Draven8795]

See post #3. RFID timing


I want to also start a list of workers. If you want to work, please let me know in this thread.


Saw it I was just agreeing with you. Unfortunetly I can't get to the link at work. I'm in for working.

[Deadly_Evolution]

Working sounds like something I'd be good at.


Yikes that's a good chunk of change to drop on a RF timing set up for a small club that's just up and coming.

[Dizmm]

$5k is cheap. I think CWSCC could maybe swing this with the help of MAP. This can open a big door for CWSCC. Doing the timing for MCSCC and even do our own big track events.

[Getsideways]

I think we need to ask what their goals are at MAP. Last year they had a monetary goal is it similar this year?
Do they want it to be more competetive/place more emphasis on awards, or are they after simply having a lot of people show up?
Can we do the registration ourselves and maybe do it the night before?
Maybe we could have a ''drivers meeting'' the friday night so everyone who is interested in racing autox or road course will have a better idea of where to be.
Can we have a preregistration for the AUTOX?


Personally i will be able to be in brainerd anytime friday that we want to start, Im going to get a hotel again.

Im all for being done with our duties by noon on sunday, having a trophy presentation by then and being back on the road by 1.

From my point of view it would be nice as a worker to have more track time i think i put on under 25 miles total including the autox and I was running around hard to get just that. I dont mind working but i think by sceduling the autox on a different day or even saturday evening (big track closes at 5????) we could get participants and workers more track time if they are doing both events.
We could run an evening Autox that would draw a larger crowd if it starts after the big track closes and after drag racing is winding down, If it means we do not need to have a long day sunday im all for working my butt off saturday.

Focus on starting the road course extra early.

Also we need to make some Banners and perhaps a HUB that everyone can go to for registration and ADVERTISE where it will be so no-one is lost.

[Getsideways]

$5k is cheap. I think CWSCC could maybe swing this with the help of MAP. This can open a big door for CWSCC. Doing the timing for MCSCC and even do our own big track events.

Im sure MAP would have a great interest in this if they were to 'sponsor' a midwest time attack series that they could advertise at.

[TomKat]

Worker Sign-up:
1. Andy S
2. Tom H
3.

I have to work? I just want to have fun.

An evening autocross (Friday and Saturday) is a great idea.

[Dizmm]

I think we need to ask what their goals are at MAP. Last year they had a monetary goal is it similar this year?
Do they want it to be more competetive/place more emphasis on awards, or are they after simply having a lot of people show up?
Can we do the registration ourselves and maybe do it the night before?
Maybe we could have a ''drivers meeting'' the friday night so everyone who is interested in racing autox or road course will have a better idea of where to be.
Can we have a preregistration for the AUTOX?


Personally i will be able to be in brainerd anytime friday that we want to start, Im going to get a hotel again.

Im all for being done with our duties by noon on sunday, having a trophy presentation by then and being back on the road by 1.

From my point of view it would be nice as a worker to have more track time i think i put on under 25 miles total including the autox and I was running around hard to get just that. I dont mind working but i think by sceduling the autox on a different day or even saturday evening (big track closes at 5????) we could get participants and workers more track time if they are doing both events.
We could run an evening Autox that would draw a larger crowd if it starts after the big track closes and after drag racing is winding down, If it means we do not need to have a long day sunday im all for working my butt off saturday.

Focus on starting the road course extra early.

Also we need to make some Banners and perhaps a HUB that everyone can go to for registration and ADVERTISE where it will be so no-one is lost.


Good post. I plan on meeting up with the MAP to discuss all this.

I hope to either have more workers than last year or to NOT have the AutoX on the same day as the big track.

[Deadly_Evolution]

$5k is cheap. I think CWSCC could maybe swing this with the help of MAP. This can open a big door for CWSCC. Doing the timing for MCSCC and even do our own big track events.

When the words, swing and help, both come up in the sentence referring to a purchase. I'd still say it's a pretty good chunk of change.

Also not sure if you caught my indication that I'd like to work also please. Or if you were just not able to update the list yet.


I also agree, unless you were working at the big track, you didn't get much time on the big track. I had something like 15 or 20 miles at best on track. Partly my fault and this is not a complaint, just a comment.

[devlish]

i'd like to work. i plan to attend next year again!

[Draven8795]

I've already taken the days off!

[EVILUTION]

^ Same here. I would like to work the event as well.

[Getsideways]

Good post. I plan on meeting up with the MAP to discuss all this.

I hope to either have more workers than last year or to NOT have the AutoX on the same day as the big track.

I was thinking the same thing about meeting with them, i need to go there anyway in december would you like to arrange something then?
Who are you dealing with this year? Perhaps you could forward them an revised edition of my post and add to it other things that have been brought up so they can have some answers and input ready.

[Dizmm]

I was thinking the same thing about meeting with them, i need to go there anyway in december would you like to arrange something then?
Who are you dealing with this year? Perhaps you could forward them an revised edition of my post and add to it other things that have been brought up so they can have some answers and input ready.

already making a lists of concerns to send them.

Dealing with Dan the Man, same as last year.

December may work. we'll see....

[Shane]

I'll work!

I'm not missing this!

[supradjza80]

I'll work!

I'm not missing this!

You won't miss it but I think we should start a betting pool on if the STi will make it!

[Shane]

HAHAHA yea you may be right there Dave!

[SgtRauksauff]

I'm in for working again, unless some Family thing comes up.

I like the idea of a night autocross.

--sarge

[Getsideways]

Also if the evening Autox happens i think it would be exciting to 'hire' a PA announcer to bring up the excitement level, and make it more of a main event then just a sideshow.
And we could bring up the triple challenge, or maybe just a double, autox and drag.
Buschur racing does this at their shootout with a lot of success.

[TomKat]

Road course, autocross, and drag.

We could run 1/4 times in the afternoon on Sunday when the autocross is done.

[DirtyBird]

I will work also, unless family stuff comes up. Ive already started saving up. Whats the entry cost for workers?

[Getsideways]

Road course, autocross, and drag.

We could run 1/4 times in the afternoon on Sunday when the autocross is done.


NO! You missed the part where most participants want to be heading home at that time...
Remember how many had left late sunday morning and how empty the pits were, If you want a drag time it will have to be run during the saturday session anyways as they are doing elimination on sunday.

[snoxracer183]

Friday night under the lights autox, announcer, the drunken camping crowd. That sounds like an event that would draw some excitement.

Saturday all out track day with RFID timing. More timed laps than you can shake a stick at. Live results as cars make their laps.

Possible triple challenge

All this has me so excited I might pee

[DirtyBird]

Friday night under the lights autox, announcer, the drunken camping crowd. That sounds like an event that would draw some excitement.

Saturday all out track day with RFID timing. More timed laps than you can shake a stick at. Live results as cars make their laps.

Possible triple challenge

All this has me so excited I might pee

Easy there fella

[TomKat]

NO! You missed the part where most participants want to be heading home at that time...
Remember how many had left late sunday morning and how empty the pits were.

You can stay a little while longer to make 2 passes down the 1/4 mile.

This year on Sunday afternoon I remember as the autocross was going on the drag race announcer was begging for more cars to make runs. We could run the Triple Challenge 1/4 mile runs on Sunday afternoon and not bother any of the drag racers.

[Getsideways]

Actually WE wouldnt have to run it at all they could simply bring a verified slip with their car number on it from any of their runs all weekend.

[TomKat]

Yeah. Verified.

I'd like to make some runs down the strip this year.

[Getsideways]

The slips i saw from there last year had the car number printed on them so it wont be a problem to have verfied slips.

[DontStopMe]

You all need matching "official looking" cwscc shirts, so the attendees know who is in charge.

[TomKat]

so the attendees know who is in charge.

Isn't that Katie?

[devlish]

You all need matching "official looking" cwscc shirts, so the attendees know who is in charge.
+1


Isn't that Katie?

ha. nice

[mrslysly]

Sign me up again but only if I can drive the limo again.

[Shane]

Sign me up again but only if I can drive the limo again.

More shittys next year?! Maybe ill join you. :)

I can't wait for this! I like the cwscc official shirt idea! Maybe toss a MAP logo on there and maybe they'll pitch in for em...

[devlish]

how many of the current CWSCC shirts are left? i can add "CWSCC EVENT STAFF" or something to the backs if there are enough of the gray left in stock?? or, i can make new really bright colored ones, similar to the MAP lime green shirts from 2yrs ago. etc.

[Dizmm]

how many of the current CWSCC shirts are left? i can add "CWSCC EVENT STAFF" or something to the backs if there are enough of the gray left in stock?? or, i can make new really bright colored ones, similar to the MAP lime green shirts from 2yrs ago. etc.

I'll talk to you about this.

[Shane]

Hey Andy, you should add me to the worker list slacker!

[Deadly_Evolution]

I know the event is a ways away, but as the organizer we need to start discussing things now.

When: June 23/24th 2012


I've heard several ideas from many, and I'd love for you guys to post them up.



Please let me know if you want to help work.

Worker Sign-up:
1. Andy S
2. Tom H
3. Micaiah H
4. Eric K
5. Mergan S :lol:
6. Dave H
7. Mike V
8. Nick H
9. Kurt C
10. Jeff J
11. Noah K.
12. Shane P
13. Kirsten M
14
15
16
17
18
19
20



So who's this Mergan S person, I think someone just got their new nick name!

[the-moss]

I want to work

[Dizmm]

I want to work

We'll make you work!

[the-moss]

I'll make you pay!!!

[EVILUTION]

Let take the M for a lap and ill pay you.

[TomKat]

I'll make you pay!!!

LOL.

Be interesting to see what the M3 will do at brainerd.

[Ryans13]

threads in this forum are backwards? its so hard for me to find the end and the start

[05Saab]

You can change that in the settings. I had to when I first joined...everything was ass backwards lol

[the-moss]

LOL.

Be interesting to see what the M3 will do at brainerd.

Probably will be a day for the S2K

[SgtRauksauff]

I'm not sure why I wasn't auto-added to the list right from the start. put me on there! I just have to decide what sort of sleeper I'm going to bring up there this year.

--sarge

[the-moss]

I'm not sure why I wasn't auto-added to the list right from the start. put me on there! I just have to decide what sort of sleeper I'm going to bring up there this year.

--sarge

This kind

http://propertytax.utah.gov/trucks/kenworth/images/T660_Slpr208.jpg

[mrslysly]

I know its a ways in advance but I would prefer to sleep in a hotel again. Me loves A/C! So I am going to start looking for deals on a room. If anyone else happens to find em, post em up. Also if anyone wants to split the cost of the room.

[Shane]

Ill split a room with ya buddy

[Getsideways]

Bringing this thread back, wrote down most of the info so we can discuss it tonight and with MAP in the near future.

Anything to add since its been awhile?

[TomKat]

Yes I have something to add.

You were complaining about my handwriting for the entry list. Thinking back to that morning I had 20 people lined up wanting to register. Some paying me money. A lot of them asking questions. I was alone and had too much to do. My handwriting gets even worse when I'm under pressure.

I'd like help at registration. At least someone to collect the money.

[devlish]

i'd offer Rochelle to help register, but her handwriting is nearly illegible as well.
i can help with that, or answer questions to those asking questions... while 2 ppl register. better to have MORE help, than not enough.

i was not there last year, but from the first year...
when people pull into the complex, nobody knew where to go! those little postcards *helped* but not much. should we have a few people rotating on a shift at the gate, directing people to the correct events that we are hosting? or could we put out our own little postcard for those interested in the HPDE and AutoX events? or at least get our info onto the postcard that MAP puts out. i remember that being a huge hassle the first year.

[Getsideways]

Okay, ''tom needs help'' written down.
I know what you mean I think if we do a preregistration friday night and online we should be able to reduce the stressful situations those late entries cause. Hopefully we only have a handfull of those this time.

Also written down was to see if we can handle all the registration at a central hub for BOTH road course and Autox allowing for fewer screwups from the brainerd registration crew along with a minimap to sho entrants where to go. Im hoping this will eliminate all those handwritten entries ;)

[mrslysly]

A bigger sign with posts for cwscc so we can place it where its easy to see. I know we had enough people not now where to go for the autox.

The biggest thing, like I said in the other ideas thread, is to not split us across 2 events at the same time. We had enough people last year for 1 event, not enough for 2.

[Getsideways]

Heres what i have so far, It might not be exactly what is stated but the idea is there.
Alot of this we cant even decide at this point but needs to be proposed to MAP so we can get the ball rolling and get the feedback we need.
1.Friday + Saturday night Autox
2.Maps Monetary goals
3.Emphasis on awards and trophys (Presentation When)
4.Possible friday evening registration and TECH for weekend events
5.Online Pre registration for Autox and Roadcourse
6. (1.)Ensuring Participants can participate in both road course and autox by not overlapping run times
7.Parade laps similar to MCSCC at Blackhawk
8.Make sure Joel comes as promised (not written down)
9.Economic banners to advertise where what and when + establish a central HUB for Registration on site + Mini map givin to all who enter the grounds
10.Multi event challenge (Drag + Autox)
11.Staff shirts
12.Autox announcer/M.C. (Jeff Jeske volunteered for this, any objections?...Didn't think so)

[TomKat]

If there is an issue I don't think running an auto x during the lapping day wouldn't be that big of a deal. If we had a few more workers it definitely doable. However if we can avoid that fine by me.

10. I like the multi event challenge idea.

7. Parade laps? Please explain further.

[Getsideways]

Your right it wouldnt be a big deal BUT Schedule below would be optimal for EVERYONE (Entrants Workers MAP).
Like you said if we can avoid the overlapping schedule GREAT.
Personally i am all for the schedule below because it gets maximum exposure for each event.
And because i dont see a reason why we WOULD overlap them

Friday: Whatever

Sat:
Big track open from 9AM-5PM
Autox 4 or 5PM-Dark

Sun:Whatever (Personally i like to leave by noon thats just my opinion as it seems everyone is tuckered out and this helps miss some of the traffic around the twin cities)

Multi challenge one thing is this needs to be kept simple and non confusing i would suggest that for this year its limited to Drag + Autox. Once again i would love personally to have the road course included but i feel it could be very unsafe, Imagine drag cars trying to make a full lap around there I also suggest this is a way to get the drag racers feet wet safely, also if we tried to operate this on the road course with all the first timers it could draw it might slow down the day for others and shorten sessions for the hardcore enthusiasts.

Parade laps is something andy suggested a better description might be ''a taste of proving grounds'' Example,
Pay $75 gets you unlimited drag runs along with 5 laps around the road course and an Autox entry.
It would require a ride along with an instructor for the road course which by keeping the autox and lapping day from overlapping would easily allow.

[Dizmm]

I talked to Chris very briefly. it sounds like we will have the big track both sat/sun. A lapping day doesn’t take too much man power. The initial tech/registration takes a lot, but after thats done and the track is hot, its about 2-3 workers only.

I have a feeling we cant do auto-x events after 5pm. I think we'll have to set things up similar to the first year. Parking lot Auto-X on Sat morning, lapping day all day saturday for road course, sunday all day competition on road course.

Good list so far. Thanks Micaiah for taking initiative on that.

[Getsideways]

Here is what buschur racing does for their shootout, i think we can improve on this by a ton.
MAX EFFORT-Sponsored by ECMTuning
-The Max Effort class combines autocrossing and drag racing. The autocross and drags are held on Saturday for Max Effort.
-You will need to read the classes listed below and pick the class your car fits into.
-Your best 1/4 mile ET will be combined with your best autocross time at the end of the day for a total time which will place you and determine the winner in each class.
-Any street tire can be used BUT the tire you choose must be used for both the autocross and drag racing portions.
-Owner of the car must drive the car in both events, NO other drivers permitted.
-All DSM's, Ralliarts or other Mitsubishi powered shootout legal vehicles will compete in DSM.
-All EVO's will compete in EVO.
-Put your class and last three digits from your tech card on your windshield and both sides of the side windows. (ME/DSM or ME/EVO)
-Street tires ONLY, NO race tires or tires with treadwear under 140! ANY DOT 140+ tread wear rating tire OK.
-Any tires that do NOT have a visible tread wear rating or DOT stamp on them will be considered illegal.
-You will get 3 drag passes to post your best 1/4 mile ET to then be added to your best autocross time for scoring.
-MAX EFFORT will have three drag runs at 4:30 pm, 5:30 pm and 6:30 pm. These are mandatory at those times for scoring!

[Dizmm]

^ I like that. almost enough to make me wanna go to the shootout

[Getsideways]

I think Dave won it last year with a GT35r powered evo that had 0* camber all the way around :) I think it would be funny to win it with an Autox car rather then a drag car.

[Getsideways]

To make it more competitive we could include the PAX factor? instead of taking the raw time?
Just throwing out ideas here

[Dizmm]

I love Pax.

[TomKat]

Do you guys think many drag racers will want to compete in a multi event competition?

I was thinking the multiple shootout would be taking the road course people and giving them a few drag racing runs.

Drag racers are drag racers. Auto x racers are more apt to try drag racing.

If you want to use PAX we will have to run SCCA classes. Yikes. That's all I have to say about that.

[Getsideways]

Do you guys think many drag racers will want to compete in a multi event competition?

I was thinking the multiple shootout would be taking the road course people and giving them a few drag racing runs.

Drag racers are drag racers. Auto x racers are more apt to try drag racing.

If you want to use PAX we will have to run SCCA classes. Yikes. That's all I have to say about that.

We had pax results from last year?

Sounds like a great thing to discuss, and im sure MAPs input will be most important

[Formula95]

This sounds like fun. Is it open to any car or just imports?

[EVILUTION]

No fucking PAX! DB's autox course was super lame. A circle with a giant slalom.

I'd love to see a Shawano style autox..... on the big track!

[Getsideways]

^True we could try to slow it down so its 'safer' But the economics may not allow us to do that. Typical Track people might be so repulsed that we only get 20-30 people.

Or the cost of it at that point will be unaffordable for most, Which is another reason the autox/drag might win out.

[TomKat]

For the autocross we had SCCA classes. I was thinking the road course.

[the-moss]

Heres what i have so far, It might not be exactly what is stated but the idea is there.
Alot of this we cant even decide at this point but needs to be proposed to MAP so we can get the ball rolling and get the feedback we need.
1.Friday + Saturday night Autox
2.Maps Monetary goals
3.Emphasis on awards and trophys (Presentation When)
4.Possible friday evening registration and TECH for weekend events
5.Online Pre registration for Autox and Roadcourse
6. (1.)Ensuring Participants can participate in both road course and autox by not overlapping run times
7.Parade laps similar to MCSCC at Blackhawk
8.Make sure Joel comes as promised (not written down)
9.Economic banners to advertise where what and when + establish a central HUB for Registration on site + Mini map givin to all who enter the grounds
10.Multi event challenge (Drag + Autox)
11.Staff shirts
12.Autox announcer/M.C. (Jeff Jeske volunteered for this, any objections?...Didn't think so)

I can probably get banners made for free/cheap at work. We have a bunch of banner printers.

[Getsideways]

Kurt beat you to it, but thanks for the offer. We made some progress on everything tonight and should be able to give some decent info to MAP

[the-moss]

Cool, Kurt's probably better at it than me too.

[TomKat]

This sounds like fun. Is it open to any car or just imports?

Sorry for the late reply. Any car.

[supradjza80]

I know its a ways in advance but I would prefer to sleep in a hotel again. Me loves A/C! So I am going to start looking for deals on a room. If anyone else happens to find em, post em up. Also if anyone wants to split the cost of the room.

Ill split a room with ya buddy

Ill join you fools.

[EVILUTION]

Dave Buschur .... shootout autox:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZO2RjNbQcg

[TomKat]

That course looked horrible. Is that the oval with slaloms you were talking about Evil?

Dizmm and the boys set up a way better course at Brainerd last year.

[Colin255]

If you're still looking for people to work, I'm in.

[Getsideways]

WOW that course is freaking hilarious, I remember reading a post where dave said he had full boost all the time around the course that guy is so full of crap hahaha

[devlish]

that's not an AutoX course... that's a big long slalom.

[EVILUTION]

TK ... Yes that is what I was talking about... that is your shootout autox.. It's no wonder his drag car was able to do OK. Now set up a real course like CWSCC did last year and the results would not be in Buschur's favor.

[Getsideways]

One of the things we didnt cement at the meeting was the ideas for the 'Proving Grounds Gladiator Challenge' (we still need a name).

The debate is do we run a combo of autox/drag road course/drag ,,, Or if we are able to run the evening Autox as we would like to do but seems unlikely due to track rules, run a triple challenge of autox/road course/drag.

Also i think some of the rules they use at the shootout were pretty good as far as tires, only allowing the same set to be used between events and saying they had to be 140+ treadwear.
I would love to hear everyones thoughts so we can make this as well rounded as possible.

[99Cobra]

Dave Buschur .... shootout autox:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZO2RjNbQcg

Hahahahahaha

[devlish]

One of the things we didnt cement at the meeting was the ideas for the 'Proving Grounds Gladiator Challenge' (we still need a name).

The debate is do we run a combo of autox/drag road course/drag ,,, Or if we are able to run the evening Autox as we would like to do but seems unlikely due to track rules, run a triple challenge of autox/road course/drag.

Also i think some of the rules they use at the shootout were pretty good as far as tires, only allowing the same set to be used between events and saying they had to be 140+ treadwear.
I would love to hear everyones thoughts so we can make this as well rounded as possible.

I like the idea of only using a 140+ treadwear to keep things even.

are you sure we couldn't do the triple challenge even with the AutoX being on saturday? they'd just have to get there rigth away in the morning and get 3 runs in to get a time... if they are in the triple challenge, we could always make sure they are let in line as needed, and wouldn't need to wait as long (except to cool down their tires!:-)

[TomKat]

Having a 140+ treadwear rule will eliminate some people from this competition. Like myself unless I buy new tires.

Couldn't there be a class for DOT tires, but less than 140 treadwear?

[Getsideways]

I like the idea of only using a 140+ treadwear to keep things even.

are you sure we couldn't do the triple challenge even with the AutoX being on saturday? they'd just have to get there rigth away in the morning and get 3 runs in to get a time... if they are in the triple challenge, we could always make sure they are let in line as needed, and wouldn't need to wait as long (except to cool down their tires!:-)

My thoights are No, since it will a first year try for us i would like to make sure we have as many of our crew able to help out as possible (i also do not want to turn it into an event that our workers do not get a fair share of tracktime)
Also it could look bad for MAP if it turns into a cluterf*** and only half the people get entered due to not being able to find the events or not get all their runs, We also have to be able to pull this off without taking away an obscene amount of time from the road racers or Autoxs. One last thing is this means we will have to babysit all these entrants to make sure they arent cheating using different cars ect. it could get difficult with 3+ events to controll all at the same time.

[Getsideways]

Having a 140+ treadwear rule will eliminate some people from this competition. Like myself unless I buy new tires.

Couldn't there be a class for DOT tires, but less than 140 treadwear?

Okay so an 'Unlimited proving grounds champ'

and a 'Street proving grounds champ'

2 classes depending on interest?

[EVILUTION]

I say the only rule should be DOT tire. The tread rating thing is complete crap.

[Dizmm]

Okay so an 'Unlimited proving grounds champ'

and a 'Street proving grounds champ'

2 classes depending on interest?

I like that

I say the only rule should be DOT tire. The tread rating thing is complete crap.

So a Hoosier A6 vs a Starspec. :yikes:

[supradjza80]

I like the idea of two classes. I think there would be a lot of people at a disadvantage if we allow tires below 140 treadwear into the competition.

One thought to keep track of all the "triple challenge cars" is to reserve numbers 1-20 (or however many numbers you need) for these cars. That way it will be easy for people running each event to know "hey we need to verify this car/driver/tires etc" using just the car number to tip you off. Once you have the list of cars running with car model/color/number/tire class print this off for each person running each event so they can easily verify the information.

[DirtyBird]

I like that,
So a Hoosier A6 vs a Starspec. :yikes:

Should make for some really close competition right there.....
I like the 140+, it can be checked at Tech too. Those found cheating should also be dq'd as well.

[DirtyBird]

If you want to run lower than 140 treadwear, then you can be bundled into unlimited class, where race slicks are acceptable.

[DirtyBird]

Fuck it, free-for-all

[Getsideways]

I like the idea of two classes. I think there would be a lot of people at a disadvantage if we allow tires below 140 treadwear into the competition.

One thought to keep track of all the "triple challenge cars" is to reserve numbers 1-20 (or however many numbers you need) for these cars. That way it will be easy for people running each event to know "hey we need to verify this car/driver/tires etc" using just the car number to tip you off. Once you have the list of cars running with car model/color/number/tire class print this off for each person running each event so they can easily verify the information.

Looks like we found you a job at the event :)

[Dizmm]

Thats a good idea Dave.

[EVILUTION]

Fuck it, free-for-all

So you'll limit the tire but not boost control, weight reduction, turbo swaps and suspension???? Why would you limit the tires other than only to follow in Buschur's foot steps?

I've heard many times that the newer street tires like star specs are better than older compounds race race tires. I think if a driver wants to run hoosiers it's no different than you guys that have gutted cars and fully built/stroked motors.

I think some of you are building time attack cars and are forced to run 140+ tires and therefor you want to enforce that at other events. This is race tire racism! Besides without tire limitations you won't need to perform any checks.

[DirtyBird]

So you'll limit the tire but not boost control, weight reduction, turbo swaps and suspension???? Why would you limit the tires other than only to follow in Buschur's foot steps?

I've heard many times that the newer street tires like star specs are better than older compounds race race tires. I think if a driver wants to run hoosiers it's no different than you guys that have gutted cars and fully built/stroked motors.

I think some of you are building time attack cars and are forced to run 140+ tires and therefor you want to enforce that at other events. This is race tire racism! Besides without tire limitations you won't need to perform any checks.
Correct, thats why I said fuck it, no rules. Run what ya brung.
If you want to run 1000+ hp and weigh 1700lbs, fine. Then I class you based on your tire.
I suggest snow tires be considered R-compounds too!

[Dizmm]

why do you guys insist to be difficult?

[EVILUTION]

How much easier does it get than "anything goes"?

I don't see why you would limit tires. Just because a car is on street tires doesn't make it a street car. I bet your car will be trailered over. I bet others will be running leaded fuel. Some won't have a cat and others won't even be plated. You should just have an anything goes three event showdown.

Then everyone can play and know where they stack up when compared to ALL the players. One list, one winner.

[DirtyBird]

why do you guys insist to be difficult?
I just like to piss Jeffro off.
The wayi see it, lets do what works the best and is the easiest on all of us running the dam thing. No reason to re-engineer the wheel here.

[DirtyBird]

Sure "anthing goes" may be simple, but it will also favor those who have the money to make the fastest car, not the True fastest driver. just depends on what we are really trying to accomplish with the event I suppose.

[EVILUTION]

Can you really judge who has money by tires alone? What if one guys shows up with 285mm street tires and the other shows up with 235mm race tires?

To limit this event in any way and make even remotely fair would require using scca classing rules. You cannot make this fair or unfair by limiting tread wear which can't even be considered equal between vendors.

The most fair event would be..... run anything you want but it has to be the same in all three events.

[supradjza80]

Evil I see your point. I guess I wonder why we have any classes for anything. Makes me wonder why have any ice racing classes based on tires, run what ya brung. Sounds fair/fun.

[Shane]

Evil I see your point. I guess I wonder why we have any classes for anything. Makes me wonder why have any ice racing classes based on tires, run what ya brung. Sounds fair/fun.


because winning is fun! You'd never keep up to or beat a studded or snow tired car if you were running all seasons....


The limitations on just tires is a tuffy... I'm in the same boat as Tom, i'd most likely be running my DOT-R's... and both our cars are deffinatly not "unlimited cars" How bout three classes, Stockish, Mildly modded, and race car? who cares what the tires are then... would still keep it pretty simple.. yea you're not going to go threw every car with a fine tooth comb but can still get general knowladge from the owner and when it gets tech'd

[supradjza80]

because winning is fun! You'd never keep up to or beat a studded or snow tired car if you were running all seasons....

Sarcasm!

I guess it depends if this is a true street car challenge or a race car challenge or both. I still am in favor of the separate tire classes. I guess I am not sure how many gutted cars planned to run an event like this. If there were a lot I would guess there needs to be some way to class them fairly in comparison to a full interior "street car".

[Shane]

Just PAX that shit!

[TomKat]

I didn't want to make this difficult. I just want to be able to run the Triple Treat with my r-comps. I wouldn't mind running in an unlimited class. I just want to run.

We can argue about classes until we are all in nursing homes.

[Shane]

Thats true... I guess i really wouldn't care either, just as long as i can beat you :) Actually we should tie dead even every event right? I'm gonna have to gain a lot of driving experence to catch up to you tho haha

[Dizmm]

we all know tires are the biggest mod, so why not start there.

Street tire triple platter challenge

Race tire triple platter challenge

Obviously its not 100% fair, but its more fair than 100% anything goes.

[DirtyBird]

^^^I like that.

[devlish]

How bout three classes, Stockish, Mildly modded, and race car? who cares what the tires are then... would still keep it pretty simple.. except what I consider mild and what you consider mild might be two completely different things! it would be a matter of opinion, instead a clean cut deciding factor (ie, your tire rating)


Street tire triple platter challenge (140+)

Race tire triple platter challenge (-139)


i like this the best, but then why was everyone at ElMez hung up on 140 treadwear tires the other night?


depends on how many people register, could you do a fwd/awd/rwd class as well? i realize it's adding another class or three, but it's also very simple to put them into those classes, just depends how many tires drive them

[Dizmm]

except what I consider mild and what you consider mild might be two completely different things! it would be a matter of opinion, instead a clean cut deciding factor (ie, your tire rating)



i like this the best, but then why was everyone at ElMez hung up on 140 treadwear tires the other night?


depends on how many people register, could you do a fwd/awd/rwd class as well? i realize it's adding another class or three, but it's also very simple to put them into those classes, just depends how many tires drive them

on tarmac, the difference in FWD/RWD/AWD is not of much significance. A cobalt SS, WRX, and RX8 are almost identical performance cars at the stock-ish level.

its well known throughout any club that a street tires is 140+ treadwear. Look on tirerack and find a non-Rcomp race tire that is less than 140.

[Getsideways]

we all know tires are the biggest mod, so why not start there.

Street tire triple platter challenge

Race tire triple platter challenge

Obviously its not 100% fair, but its more fair than 100% anything goes.
I like this simply because its easy and tires are the key factor to going fast its the simplest thing to keep an eye on IMO.

Is there any single other item we could simply seperate cars by?
I guess there could be a forced induction/NA class , But 90% of the cars there are FI. Got to keep it real simple like tires or major power adder or nothing...

EDIT a lot also depends on the interest level of this event, IF its only 20 cars run what you brung , But say we get 50 then a classing system might make for more competition.

[DirtyBird]

Classing by tires is the easiest I think, I never objected to it at the meeting. Also, why arnt we using scca classing again?

[Getsideways]

Looking at the results from last year, half of the HPDE cars were NA and 1 outta 3 autox cars were NA.

So that could for sure work, but Its going to give the advantage to an Z06 for sure

[Getsideways]

Classing by tires is the easiest I think, I never objected to it at the meeting. Also, why arnt we using scca classing again?

Too many cheaters. when we tried to class cars last year people would look at you and say straight faced ''its stock'' with a huge intercooler sticking out the front of their bumper.
Plus SCCA isnt meant for drag or road course its ONLY close to fair around an autox.

[DirtyBird]

O, that really suck about the cheaters. I get it now though. The z06 will probably domiate n/a, but there again, how many people with cars like that really show up on street tires?

[devlish]

will they let a Z06 through the gate? didn't they shun out the guy in the Viper the first year we went becuase this is listed as an IMPORT BATTLE weekend? :-)


EDIT a lot also depends on the interest level of this event, IF its only 20 cars run what you brung , But say we get 50 then a classing system might make for more competition.

good point. i think if 30+ cars register for this, it would be best to break it into classes.

[Getsideways]

I think we had 6+ vettes at the road course last year

[DirtyBird]

If my camaro gets shunned, wayne brady will choke a bitch.

[Dizmm]

O, that really suck about the cheaters. I get it now though. The z06 will probably domiate n/a, but there again, how many people with cars like that really show up on street tires?

Most vette's show up on street tires. They dont really have room to haul race tires.

I think we continue to use SCCA classing for only the parking lot auto-x.

[Getsideways]

Okay options for the multi event taco eating challenge
1. Run what you brung open classing...... One winner. No classing BS. Hand out trophys to the top 3.

2. Open classing split into a street/race tire. Makes for a little more competition. Two winners, 2 trophys.

3. FI/NA or similar style classing. once again makes some extra competition for the drivers, but a stock Z06/viper will show up and own the class if he can drive even a little. Something that isnt a big deal to me but it is an import event and im sure MAP would prefer the classing to be import friendly.

And then either we let it be all out open, swap to different tires between events, or say same setup must be used between all events.

[DirtyBird]

Anybody have somw r-comps i could borrrow for the autocross lol

[devlish]

Triple Import Title Showdown
or T I T S for short


i like this classing the best


2. Open classing split into a street/race tire. Makes for a little more competition. Two winners, 2 trophys.

[Dizmm]

^ perfect! Lets go with that. i like TITS

[Getsideways]

MMMM im going to go grab a set right now.

[DirtyBird]

Triple Import Title Showdown
or T I T S for short


i like this classing the best
I would love to see the staff shirt to accompany that!

[Shane]

What about option 2 but top 3 in each class?

TITS sounds good!

[supradjza80]

I like option 2. I also 2nd that most people with Vettes or sports cars in general will be rolling on street tires unless they plan on bringing a support vehicle to haul around tires, especially if they are driving from a long distance to get there.

[TomKat]

most people with Vettes or sports cars in general will be rolling on street tires unless they plan on bringing a support vehicle to haul around tires,

There was a Vette there last year with a semi for a support vehicle. Plus several other Vettes - muscle cars showed up on trailers.

[devlish]

I would love to see the staff shirt to accompany that!

we need to confirm that this will be a TRIPLE challenge though first... then you'll see a shirt design for this. it seems that we might not be able to do it anyways.

micaiah, When you calling MAP on this?

[supradjza80]

There was a Vette there last year with a semi for a support vehicle. Plus several other Vettes - muscle cars showed up on trailers.

The funny thing is I will probably trailer my car out there with the rally team stuff....but I will still be running street tires. Plus it will be nice to have the trailer in case the supra our collins rx7 has a failure so far from home.

[Dizmm]

Micaiah and I plan to visit Map this weekend.

[EVILUTION]

I'd rather see three classed based on FWD/AWD/RWD than based on tires. That makes much better sense than using the fictitious treadwear rating as the deciding factor.

Anyway I'm done discussing this now because you seem to want to sit in the back of the bus rather than drive it. I just wish you guys would be original for just one event instead of following some of what the mainstream does while dismissing all the rest of it.

[Dizmm]

I'd rather see three classed based on FWD/AWD/RWD than based on tires. That makes much better sense than using the fictitious treadwear rating as the deciding factor.

I thought you were a smart guy.

[Getsideways]

Check FWD RWD AWD good idea.

I agree with the national way of doing thigs with the treadwear rating, but this event especially i dont see it being the fairest.

So heres what we do throw tire rating out the window unless we have a massive amount of entries. If we get alot double the class with the tire split.

3 Classes either 4,7,10 trophys.

This sounds like the best way to me, with the street/race tire setup being second best

[DirtyBird]

Check FWD RWD AWD good idea.

I agree with the national way of doing thigs with the treadwear rating, but this event especially i dont see it being the fairest.

So heres what we do throw tire rating out the window unless we have a massive amount of entries. If we get alot double the class with the tire split.

3 Classes either 4,7,10 trophys.

This sounds like the best way to me, with the street/race tire setup being second best

I vote for this. This will make sure the fastest are in each class, and hopefully exite new comers by showing them what each class can do. We have to remember this isnt just an autocross, so it makes sense to not treat it as such. Hell, if the three top times are close enough maybe do a sudden death one run takes the crown.

[SgtRauksauff]

TITS. I like the name, but you'll be alienating Non-Imports.

Each event needs to be classed separately, because they're specialties, then the Triple Intense Track Smackdown needs to have it's own way of figuring out trophy classes. what about a numbering system, that when added up, gives the overall score, and the top three (or whatever) scores are given physical TITS trophies?

What classes are there for the drag racers?

I think changing tires should be allowed. drag slicks for the drag track, A6's for the autoX track, and slicks for the HPDE. or whatever is wanted.

With the amount of cheating the classes, and the lack of manpower to enforce classing, we need to stick to some pretty rudimentary and very obvious classes.

FWD, AWD, RWD, 4cyl, 6cyl, 8cyl, FI, NA. I think that makes only eighteen classes.

what if an audi, volvo, or vigor runs (5 cylinders)? they get put in the next higher cylinder class.
what if it's electric? dunno on that one yet.

just some thoughts. I'll try to think more later, but it'll hurt.

--sarge

[DontStopMe]

You guys need to be different!

I say you class cars by color, wing size and # of doors.

[devlish]

You guys need to be different!

I say you class cars by color, wing size and # of doors.

awesome!!!! Jeffroo will be proud of you for this "out of the box" thinking!

[devlish]

I'd rather see three classed based on FWD/AWD/RWD than based on tires.

Check FWD RWD AWD good idea.

hey... i mentioned this idea on the previous page. wtf? :-)

[Dizmm]

you have to know what the classing is before the event. you cant change things up mid event.

This cant be complicated. this is just an added special thing we are doing. this cant turn into a lot of work as we'll all be busy enough doing the normal running of all the events.

FWD vs AWD vs RWD is pointless, There is no rhyme to it. One is not necessarily better than the other. So why make classes for it. We all know Race tires beats street tires.

[Getsideways]

you have to know what the classing is before the event. you cant change things up mid event.

This cant be complicated. this is just an added special thing we are doing. this cant turn into a lot of work as we'll all be busy enough doing the normal running of all the events.

FWD vs AWD vs RWD is pointless, There is no rhyme to it. One is not necessarily better than the other. So why make classes for it. We all know Race tires beats street tires.

The point isnt which chassis is better then another or even being fair, its more or less about appealing to the entrants. So think about it from that standpoint.
You pull up with banana on street tires and run against me on street tires, Would it not make more sense to split it with drivetrain rather then just tire? Hand out a couple more trophys and still have it very simple no way to cheat?
Im just raising the question not being argumentative.

[Getsideways]

hey... i mentioned this idea on the previous page. wtf? :-)

That was so 3+ pages ago musta missed it.

[Dizmm]

The point isnt which chassis is better then another or even being fair, its more or less about appealing to the entrants. So think about it from that standpoint.
You pull up with banana on street tires and run against me on street tires, Would it not make more sense to split it with drivetrain rather then just tire? Hand out a couple more trophys and still have it very simple no way to cheat?
Im just raising the question not being argumentative.

banana vs your evo, both on starspecs, would be a very close race, well except for the Drag race.

[06evo9se]

alright guys sorry for jumping in the ring so late here, but i can box, micaiah knows i can box

anywho, as for me being a beginner, I believe any advertisment of more classes or trophies, sparks a idea of having a better chance of actually coming home with something or even having a competition, as i understand it is a triple even of autox drag and maybe big track, the drag racers are going to want to be seperated via street and drag tire ATLEAST, and the autox guys are going to want chassis, so is both an option, when micaiah and andy head to map this weekend, chris should be able to voice his opinion and we can see what he says?

[Getsideways]

banana vs your evo, both on starspecs, would be a very close race, well except for the Drag race.

Banana would get destroyed at the drag race and road course, you know this for sure. The autox would probably be a draw.
And like i said its not about being fair, its about getting the entrants to enjoy themselves feel competitive and keep things very simple to us.

I like both of these ideas and would like to get both of them in front of chris and see his input.

Thanks alex very close to my thoughts.

[SgtRauksauff]

Each event (drag, autoX, TimeAttack) will have its own classing system, since there will be other people in those events NOT participating in TITS.

So, to put all of the regular competitors in a system to support TITS, we need to have a Basic Relativity Algorithm.

What if we do something similar to season points in our regular AX series? 100 points to the winner of each class, and some factor multiplied by the time difference from that winner in each class for each individual event. The TITS competitors then add all three of their BRA numbers to get the final score.

Obviously, we need to make different classes here, but it should be easy general ones like I mentioned before. We could use the New Index Procedure for Proper List Entry.

:)

--sarge

[Formula95]

I know you guys are still ironing out details, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me were about a cost to enter said sweet event.

[DirtyBird]

Lets just fucking do this already

[06evo9se]

also i would be more than willing to help out with any work for the event!

[devlish]

^ see micaiah, i think you'll have more than enough help to pull it off, and still have 2ppl to ride along with noobs on the big track. i really think it's doable.

besides, with a name like TITS, it just needs to happen! no excuses!

[Draven8795]

banana vs your evo, both on starspecs, would be a very close race, well except for the Drag race.

Banana would get destroyed at the drag race and road course, you know this for sure. The autox would probably be a draw.


You guys keep my bannana out of this.

Anywho I wasn't there last year so maybe it was a little better organized but whatever you guys come up with just keep it really simple. New comers to events like this can cause a lot of chaos at events because they don't know how they are normally run and if your trying to add this extra layer to the fun of the weekend it needs to be in a state in which people can move from one event to the next as seamlessy as possible. I haven't read the whole thread but if people want to participate we should just make the people get their own slips for each event and turn them in at a designated time so we can come up with the results before everyone leaves and give them their trophies and what not.

P.S. Andy we should get a game of raquetball going sometime.

[Getsideways]

You bought bannana? Sweet!

[Draven8795]

Yes sir. Time to try my hand at a different car. This will be my Shawano Track slut.

Maybe BlackHawk as well.

STi will be going to brainerd though.

[Dizmm]

P.S. Andy we should get a game of raquetball going sometime.

this sounds like fun!

[Shane]

STi will be going to brainerd though.

Sweet! We are gonna have to put the smack down on some of them EVO's

[Draven8795]

Sweet! We are gonna have to put the smack down on some of them EVO's


Damn I need more power then haha.

[DirtyBird]

When you guys go this weekend, make sure they will be allowing muscle this year. Like mustangs, and camaros, and whatnot. This import only shit is not good for buisness with them.

[Dizmm]

When you guys go this weekend, make sure they will be allowing muscle this year. Like mustangs, and camaros, and whatnot. This import only shit is not good for buisness with them.

they allow anything.

[DirtyBird]

Ok good, I'm trying to spark some interest on ls1tech and want to make sure nobody comes up and gets shunned because of the type of cars they drive.

[Draven8795]

Ok good, I'm trying to spark some interest on ls1tech and want to make sure nobody comes up and gets shunned because of the type of cars they drive.


There is also another car club that is primarily muscle cars that puts an event on kind of like this (at least last year they did) a few weeks after the MAP event.

[DirtyBird]

There is also another car club that is primarily muscle cars that puts an event on kind of like this (at least last year they did) a few weeks after the MAP event.
oooookkkkkkaaayyyy..........

[daltond88]

I think Alex Dziamarski and myself would like to help out!

[Getsideways]

Good the more the merrier

[Formula95]

I'm new to this sort of event, but I would like to help out.

[devlish]

There is also another car club that is primarily muscle cars that puts an event on kind of like this (at least last year they did) a few weeks after the MAP event.

oooookkkkkkaaayyyy..........

yeah mike... you should probably NOT come to our event, and go to the mullet-fest a few weeks later with your camaro! :-) just kidding...

dirty birds theme song...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASoqnSa1uRE

[Shane]

Is it almost June yet!? My STi is drooling to get out on a track that is not ice!

[superd16girl]

I don't know all the details, but I plan on going since I have off of work and can work.

[Getsideways]

What do you need to know, Its has it all!

[superd16girl]

Ha well I can work. Just was wondering about cost since I am trying to plan on signing up for other track days before this. I like to plan ahead ;)

[Getsideways]

I think we have space for a couple more workers, not sure.

Might wanna PM andy soon to make sure you can get on the worker list Though as i know we have a few that werent on the page 1 list and im betting the cap is 20 :)

[DirtyBird]

Anyone camping there?

[Getsideways]

When you guys go this weekend, make sure they will be allowing muscle this year. Like mustangs, and camaros, and whatnot. This import only shit is not good for buisness with them.

Heres what chris said, Domestic cars are allowed on the road course and autox for the weekend, but only Imports and domestic sport compacts are allowed on the drag strip. Sorry the camaro doesnt count as a compact ;)

[TomKat]

Will domestics be allowed on the strip for the TTS Challenge?

[Getsideways]

I highly dought it.

[Shane]

good thing i drive imports i guess :)

[KARKRAFT]

I don't know why everyone just doesn't have an EVO or STi. I thought everyone knew that those are the only cars to have.

[Getsideways]

Makes sense to me they are trying to cater to a certain crowd... their customers and give them the absolute most seat time for their money, Im betting the prices and amount of runs they get are about as good as it gets in the drag scene. And is one of the reasons why proving grounds is growing in size rapidly.

[DirtyBird]

Thats fine for me, I'mnot really into "organized and legal" drag racing anyways...lol...
I'm going mostly to work and do some autocross and maybe a few laps on BIR to say i've driven there. Do you have a breakdown of what i should be looking to spend if I'll mostly just be working and competing in the autocross?

[DirtyBird]

Also, why am i not on the worker list? I posted i'd work on the first page-

[TomKat]

I'm going mostly to work and do some autocross and maybe a few laps on BIR to say i've driven there. Do you have a breakdown of what i should be looking to spend if I'll mostly just be working and competing in the autocross?

Quite a bit even if you are a worker. Figure in gas for the weekend. 12 hours of highway driving plus what you use at the track. You'll need good brake pads ($250) and fresh brake fluid if you are going on the big track. Tire wear from the autocross.

Plus the worker fee of at least $35 which hasn't been set yet. It may be more.

[Dizmm]

Mike I would need to know for sure. Your post said something like "I'll come unless family stuff comes up." To me that says no, you wont be there.

[devlish]

Quite a bit even if you are a worker. Figure in gas for the weekend. 12 hours of highway driving plus what you use at the track. You'll need good brake pads ($250) and fresh brake fluid if you are going on the big track. Tire wear from the autocross.

Plus the worker fee of at least $35 which hasn't been set yet. It may be more.

Mike, I don't htink you'll need $250 brake pads. i had $135 Hawk HP+ pads that lasted me 2-3 events easily... had to take an extra cool down lap here or there, but no big deal. i was on good street tires too, not race tires. the brake fluid, YES. but still plan on a couple hundred easily for the weekend, even as a worker. like tom said, gas isn't cheap when you're getting 4mpg at the track. extra tires, new pads, possibly rotors, all maintenance up to date on car, etc... it adds up quickly!

[Dizmm]

Mike, I don't htink you'll need $250 brake pads. i had $135 Hawk HP+ pads that lasted me 2-3 events easily... had to take an extra cool down lap here or there, but no big deal. i was on good street tires too, not race tires. the brake fluid, YES. but still plan on a couple hundred easily for the weekend, even as a worker. like tom said, gas isn't cheap when you're getting 4mpg at the track. extra tires, new pads, possibly rotors, all maintenance up to date on car, etc... it adds up quickly!

on your STi with its BIG brakes, you can probably get away with HP+ pads, however on a heavy iron block camaro with small brakes and no cooling, I wouldn't risk it.

[DirtyBird]

Ls1 brakes are axtually pretty decent for the camaro. Cooling ducts are in the works too, nothing fancy, just functional. Id be working on it now if I didnt feel like shit.

[DirtyBird]

I may just see if I can do some ridealongs on the RC and stick to the autocross for now till the camaro is more raceready. Maybe shane will give me a lift.

[DirtyBird]

No go

[TomKat]

but still plan on a couple hundred easily for the weekend, !

You've got to be kidding. That might cover your gas expenses.

[Dizmm]

You've got to be kidding. That might cover your gas expenses.

past years I've spent around $500 total. thats gas, food, and maybe a T-shirt.

[TomKat]

past years I've spent around $500 total. thats gas, food, and maybe a T-shirt.

LOL.

Forgetting some stuff aren't you?

[DirtyBird]

Hookers?

[Dizmm]

LOL.

Forgetting some stuff aren't you?

i'm not counting wear and tear on the car.

[devlish]

You've got to be kidding. That might cover your gas expenses.

i meant in addition to the brakes, tires, wear & tear, gas, etc.
i had already mentioned that stuff.
i had approx $200-$300 total 2yrs ago, including hotel, food, small items
this did NOT include gas or wear/tear on car items.
probably a $600-$700+ weekend easily overall i'm sure.

[Getsideways]

A normal full blown track weekend including entry costs me 1K if i run race rubber so subtract the entry fee of 150-250.
And i get 750-850 if i break nothing.

[EVILUTION]

Last year I corded a set of brand new Hoosiers.

[DirtyBird]

A normal full blown track weekend including entry costs me 1K if i run race rubber so subtract the entry fee of 150-250.
And i get 750-850 if i break nothing. To be honest, that is rediculous! I dont know how you guys throw that kind of money around and not think twice?

[Draven8795]

Exactly. No need to think twice. Its what we want to do so we do it. I put money aside during the winter so I can run all summer. You only live once. Might as well do what you want to do.

[DirtyBird]

Delete

[Pointdsm]

Well woopdie doo for you then. I guess when all you have in life is your car, then thats all that matters. Andy, im out. Sorry.

Wasn't it just a day ago that you said, "Andy, I'm 100% in"? No wonder he assumed you were always out...

[99Cobra]

This is a hobby that you have to pay to play. If you have to save up for something as cheap as a transmission cooler maybe you should take up another hobby. Something cheap like chess or checkers.

[DirtyBird]

Delete

[DirtyBird]

Delete

[TomKat]

Mike. You have a family to take care of. That is your first priority and that's a good thing.

[DirtyBird]

Mike. You have a family to take care of. That is your first priority and that's a good thing.
Thank you Tom, at least you understand. And its not that I dont have the money or cant save up for it, its just that is a nice chunk of money to just burn up in tires and gas. I expected brandon to make a dumb comment though cuz well....thats brandon.

[KARKRAFT]

Mike. You have a family to take care of. That is your first priority and that's a good thing.

Truth.

I used to blow tons of money on this stuff. Now, I have to pinch pennies to do a few events here and there. And no heavy modding. Which is hard for me. But, such is life. I'll probably either skip some other stuff to do this, or just tag along with someone else so I can help work the event.

[DirtyBird]

Anyways, have fun peeps. If help is needed with planning, Im still here to help.

[99Cobra]

This is a expensive hobby and if you cannot afford it you shouldn't be in it. You go and belittle those that do spend a decent amount chunk of change on this hobby. I de-friended you on facebook, because nearly every comment of yours is something negative and belittling. Take care of your kids.

[DirtyBird]

Delete

[99Cobra]

I could really give a shit less. Thanks for playing the game. Facebook is dumb anyways. Watch out, Cobra gonna get the shit knocked the fuck out of it, and Tim wont be there to help you this time.

So you're physically threatening me and my property now? Wow just wow.

[DirtyBird]

So you're physically threatening me and my property now? Wow just wow.
You scared?
Im not gonna do shit to be honest beside continue to sit on my couch and be sick. If I wanna kick your ass, Ill do it at the track, so BRING IT COBRA!

[abot316]

I could really give a shit less. Thanks for playing the game. Facebook is dumb anyways. Watch out, Cobra gonna get the shit knocked the fuck out of it, and Tim wont be there to help you this time.
I was also just asking if some thought twice about spending all that money. Some dont, some do. Thanks for your patronage.

OK let me get this straight. You can't afford a race weekend which I can fully support if you have a family to take of. Its very cool, YET you threaten someone and their property with harm on the internet???? Dude do have any clue if you would follow through your post is solid intent and you'd get the thousands in fines/restitution thrown at you?

And for the record, LS1 brakes are fine unaided for AutoX'ing but if you plan on any high speed open track events they are iffy after the first few laps. Cooling ducts, premium directional rotors, grippy pads are to cheap insurance esp on any F-body over 36-3700 lbs with driver.
Most who say they are fine don't push their cars as hard as people on this board.

[DirtyBird]

I love the interwebz

[DirtyBird]

OK let me get this straight. You can't afford a race weekend which I can fully support if you have a family to take of. Its very cool, YET you threaten someone and their property with harm on the internet???? Dude do have any clue if you would follow through your post is solid intent and you'd get the thousands in fines/restitution thrown at you?

And for the record, LS1 brakes are fine unaided for AutoX'ing but if you plan on any high speed open track events they are iffy after the first few laps. Cooling ducts, premium directional rotors, grippy pads are to cheap insurance esp on any F-body over 36-3700 lbs with driver.
Most who say they are fine don't push their cars as hard as people on this board.
I was wondering when the godfather of ls1s was going to chime in.
You two are made for eachother.

[Pointdsm]

I will 100% drop kick your fucking ass. Go fuck yourself you little piece of shit.

I know people like you in person, however your immature attitude is absolutely pathetic. You may say this is the internet, however I'm very sure your way of thinking does have an influence on your everyday life. Hopefully your attitude doesn't make it back to your family....

I hope this is just your "internet" side....but it is just pathetic.

[Getsideways]

To be honest, that is rediculous! I dont know how you guys throw that kind of money around and not think twice?

Trust me i do think twice thats why i only did 3 High speed events last year, and have now made the switch to street tires, they are much cheaper to run, Trust me racing is not my first priority.

[DirtyBird]

Gee, thanks PDSM
Im done playing interwebz with you all. Have a good night. :)

I was never trying to "belittle" anyone. I was just asking a question. The reaction of a few has shown me how immature they really are even though they may think otherwise. This is a disxussion board, but I am getting sick of explaining myself, so lets get back to discussing the event. If some magical moderator being wanted to omit the last page of bs, that woulb be fine with me.

[DirtyBird]

How bout them evos!

[EVILUTION]

Ah DirtyBird... you've got these guys all spun up. I thought that was my job. We all still love your interwebz shit talking ass. You probably learned that shit by watching us.

I'd recommend you save up enough to come out and just enjoy some ride alongs. If you don't get car sick that may be more fun since you get to enjoy dozens of different cars.

Hope to see you there!

[DirtyBird]

Ah DirtyBird... you've got these guys all spun up. I thought that was my job. We all still love your interwebz shit talking ass. You probably learned that shit by watching us.

I'd recommend you save up enough to come out and just enjoy some ride alongs. If you don't get car sick that may be more fun since you get to enjoy dozens of different cars.

Hope to see you there!
I learned from the best budd.
I like your thinking as far as just hitching rides out there. Maybe Ill go with Shane if he doesnt mind.

[Shane]

Truth.

I used to blow tons of money on this stuff. Now, I have to pinch pennies to do a few events here and there. And no heavy modding. Which is hard for me. But, such is life. I'll probably either skip some other stuff to do this, or just tag along with someone else so I can help work the event.

You can always ride bitch, bitch. Just be prepaired as my coilovers are stiffer then a 20 year old on viagra.



Why can't we all just get along? Group hug?!

[northsydryd]

I was wondering when the godfather of ls1s was going to chime in.
You two are made for eachother.

jelousy is a nasty cologne....

[99Cobra]

You can always ride bitch, bitch. Just be prepaired as my coilovers are stiffer then a 20 year old on viagra.



Why can't we all just get along? Group hug?!

NO!!!!

[Shane]

NO!!!!

But the sentra doesn't care!

[DirtyBird]

^ lol

[Getsideways]

I de-friended you on facebook,

I missed this the first time, that is seriously funny, not even mean just childishly funny .

[99Cobra]

But the sentra doesn't care!

Sentra is sitting on top of a mini-van. It still doesn't care.

[supradjza80]

So I hear there is an event @ Brainerd in June anybody want to go?

[DirtyBird]

I missed this the first time, that is seriously funny, not even mean just childishly funny .
I had to check to see, pretty funny though.

[Shane]

Sentra is sitting on top of a mini-van. It still doesn't care.

poor sentra! I see it has been replaced tho huh?!

So I hear there is an event @ Brainerd in June anybody want to go?


Yea, i hear that too! i'm pretty F'n stoaked to get on that shit! Gonna tear up that TITS challenge with my 4 door family car on steriods :) Totally drifting that thing too, gotta do all the attractions there ;)

[Getsideways]

Whateva dood i created tits around my car just so i could win it ;)

[VPT]

So poor.

[Dizmm]

wow guys.

i like spending $1k every weekend on track days.

Mike if you want cheap seat time, why are you not out ice racing? Cost about $20 a weekend and maybe $15 in gas.

As for what each event costs, it all depends what you want to calculate into "wear'n tear." If you start thinking about how long your motor will last and it only will take about 20 track days before it blows up, then yes an easy $1k per event.

If i were to take my Evo to BHF right now, pay the $160 entry, $200 in gas to trailer it there/back, then $100 in gas on track, I'm only out $460.

But if you start adding up all the other things that will eventually fail or need replacing, then figure in brake pads (probably get 3-BHF's out of them) $75, Oil changes- $30, Clutch $75, Motor $200, trans $200, and the list can go on.


But for me, and right now, this is what i live for. I choose not to have kids, because if I did i wouldnt be able to do what i'm doing now. Mike dont get mad at others for not choosing what you did.

[Getsideways]

wow guys.

i like spending $1k every weekend on track days.

Mike if you want cheap seat time, why are you not out ice racing? Cost about $20 a weekend and maybe $15 in gas.

As for what each event costs, it all depends what you want to calculate into "wear'n tear." If you start thinking about how long your motor will last and it only will take about 20 track days before it blows up, then yes an easy $1k per event.

If i were to take my Evo to BHF right now, pay the $160 entry, $200 in gas to trailer it there/back, then $100 in gas on track, Plus the transfer case ill go through because my car is beast, I'm only out $1,460.

But if you start adding up all the other things that will eventually fail or need replacing, then figure in brake pads (probably get 3-BHF's out of them) $75, Oil changes- $30, Clutch $75, Motor $200, trans $200, and the list can go on.


But for me, and right now, this is what i live for. I choose not to have kids, because if I did i wouldnt be able to do what i'm doing now. Mike dont get mad at others for not choosing what you did.

Ah thats more like it!

[Dizmm]

Ah thats more like it!

C'mon! I'll call up previous owner and tell him i blew the tcase again. He'll send me another $1000.

[devlish]

Truth.

I used to blow tons of money on this stuff. Now, I have to pinch pennies to do a few events here and there. And no heavy modding. Which is hard for me. But, such is life. I'll probably either skip some other stuff to do this, or just tag along with someone else so I can help work the event.

^ what he said.
i've never run race tires or the expensive brake pads that andy & micaiah do at the big tracks, but i have just as much fun! costs a little less since the pads and tires last longer. expensive sport for sure! and with kids, it's that much harder to not only find the extra money to make these events, but find time to even attend. I do enjoy going, and helping out wherever i can. I am still planning to make BIR this year, probably without a car. but i'm hoping for a few ride-alongs, and possibly even talking one of these guys into some seat time for a few laps :-)

Mike, i fully understand where you're coming from. it's a crazy expensive weekend. and while TK cannot believe the low $$ i posted for my weekend at BIR, perhaps it's becuase i'd rather not think about it! i save up from side jobs here and there, and don't think twice about spending it for what i'd been saving for. i don't add up the little stuff, it makes me sick to think about it! ha. you and me can sit in the pits and help change tires or something at BIR this year. see you there man!

[SgtRauksauff]

Brakes - $300-ish (including the ducting I made). Still on the car, still plenty of use, that was just the initial purchase of the pads.
Tires - $100ish (John Berget is the man)
Gas - $50 for the car, probably $150-200 for the van.
oil/filter - $50-ish (amsoil synthetic for engine/trans, kaaz LSD oil for the diff, reall good wheel bearing grease)
wheel bearings - $50 (again, still fine and good, I just wanted fresh for the track day)
Food - $30-ish, including junk food at gas stops, gatorade, etc...
camping -free
fun and games with friends - priceless.

yeah, it's a non-trivial amount of money, but it was planned for an entire year.

This year I'm hoping to step up my game a bit, but that's going to depend on how much I can get done before then.

but it's one of the most fun weekends I've ever been involved in.

--sarge

[Draven8795]

Brakes - $300-ish (including the ducting I made). Still on the car, still plenty of use, that was just the initial purchase of the pads.
Tires - $100ish (John Berget is the man)
Gas - $50 for the car, probably $150-200 for the van.
oil/filter - $50-ish (amsoil synthetic for engine/trans, kaaz LSD oil for the diff, reall good wheel bearing grease)
wheel bearings - $50 (again, still fine and good, I just wanted fresh for the track day)
Food - $30-ish, including junk food at gas stops, gatorade, etc...
camping -free
fun and games with friends - priceless.

yeah, it's a non-trivial amount of money, but it was planned for an entire year.

This year I'm hoping to step up my game a bit, but that's going to depend on how much I can get done before then.

but it's one of the most fun weekends I've ever been involved in.

--sarge


Well get in the damn garage and quit screwing around with your other cars =)

Kurt you can probably take my car for a few spins if you promise to be nice to it. (you could drive banana all the way there too haha)

[devlish]

^ what car you taking? the STi right? no way am i driving banana 6hours!! F-That!! sorry.

i'm considering hauling the GLH there for the autoX. haven't decided yet. mostly it will depend on it i have time to get it tuned, then aligned & corner weighted again.

[DontStopMe]

All this money talk doesn't make me feel so bad about owning a $1,000+ camcorder anymore. :)

[Draven8795]

^ what car you taking? the STi right? no way am i driving banana 6hours!! F-That!! sorry.

i'm considering hauling the GLH there for the autoX. haven't decided yet. mostly it will depend on it i have time to get it tuned, then aligned & corner weighted again.

Yea taking the STi.

[DirtyBird]

Im not mad at anyone, Its not my place to be mad at anyone. I was asking a simple question that ended up getting a few smartass awnsers. So I gave some BS back. You can think whatever you want, but dont pop off to someone with less "free" money telling them they need to find another hobby or shit.
Anyways, like I said think whatever you like, Im not going anywhere.

[Draven8795]

Maybe andy or tom can make it look like it never happened? I would have for someone outside of our group to come on to our forum and read through this thread interested in attending the event and then get to that banter section.