What class to run?

[snoxracer183]

So with the new car I did some research as to which classes I could run with the new Speed3.

These are the classes:
DS
STU
DSP

I'm going to ignore the DS category for now because it's just not fun to leave a car stock. So that leaves STU and DSP. Which class makes more sense to run in to have equal competition for the Speed3?

[TomKat]

I'd buy good tires and run DS. Drop in air filter, cat. back exhaust and Carbotech brake pads.

[Dizmm]

Do you plan on running race rubber. If not, then STU would be good. DS cars can run race tires which are probably quicker than STU cars.

[Kiesgen117]

I agree, I don't think that car would be very competitive in stu, up against modded A stock cars. I think you should go with Hille's plan + koni yellow shocks and a big arse front sway bar.

[snoxracer183]

If the car is competitive in DS it would run against the same type of cars in DSP correct? Or do cars start swapping classes when you move to SP?

[snoxracer183]

OK so I ran across Appendix A of the rule book and Kiesgen is right, there is no way to be competitive in STU running against Evos, STIs, M3s and cars of the like. In the DSP section, the example cars they use seem to be more the Speed3 competition, Cobalts, A4s, 240s, Integras, Civics, older 3 series.

I guess it just depends how far I want to take the modding of the car?

By race rubber do you mean full out race slicks? I know for sure I would run R-compounds at least.

[Dizmm]

If the car is competitive in DS it would run against the same type of cars in DSP correct? Or do cars start swapping classes when you move to SP?

most all cars is DSP came from DS. The higher the class the harder it is to be competitive. more money/time/tuning is needed.

[Dizmm]

OK so I ran across Appendix A of the rule book and Kiesgen is right, there is no way to be competitive in STU running against Evos, STIs, M3s and cars of the like. In the DSP section, the example cars they use seem to be more the Speed3 competition, Cobalts, A4s, 240s, Integras, Civics, older 3 series.

I guess it just depends how far I want to take the modding of the car?

By race rubber do you mean full out race slicks? I know for sure I would run R-compounds at least.

any DOT race tire is ok in Stock class. A full out race slick will put you in Modified i think.

If you plan on running the R-comps, I'd start in DS.

[snoxracer183]

So what exactly is this rule about suspension stating? What is a standard spring? Does it mean standard in design but you can use different height springs as long as you don't modify the spring itself?

13.8 SUSPENSION
A. Standard, as defined herein, suspension springs must be used.
They may not be cut, shortened or collapsed.

[Dizmm]

in stock cass you cant change out your springs. only the strut for an OE replacement (koni, KYB, ect...)

[snoxracer183]

in stock cass you cant change out your springs. only the strut for an OE replacement (koni, KYB, ect...)

I haven't dealt much with car suspensions in the past so bare with me. Per this rule, 13.5.A.2 - 4 concerning the strut/shocks

2. Suspension geometry and alignment capability, not including
ride height, may not be altered by the substitution of alternate
shock absorbers.

3. Adjustable spring perches are allowed, but the spring loadbearing
surface must be in the same location relative to the
shock mounting points as on the standard part. Shims may
be used to achieve compliance.

4. The fully extended length must be within plus or minus one
inch of the dimension of the standard part.

So does this make it possible to lower the car within the stock rules?

[Kiesgen117]

Be careful with that, you can only do mods if it is specificly states that you can in that class. So no you technicly can't "lower" your car in stock class. The ultimate stock class setup is koni (or other race bread shocks), a cat back exhaust, a huge front sway bar, hoosier A6 or kuhmo V710's (most important) generally as wide as you can fit on the stock rim (or same size after market rim) and a performance alignment. Dsp you do almost anything for suspension, and could run a full exhaust, and tune. But DS would still be a good place to start as all of the mods would carry over to Dsp.

[snoxracer183]

I would assume since they specifically spell out that ride height can be altered by alternate shock absorbers it would be ok as long as the spring perch was in the correct position along with the new strut also falling into the length rule.

[Dizmm]

Right here is your answer:

Adjustable spring perches are allowed, but the spring loadbearing
surface must be in the same location relative to the
shock mounting points as on the standard part. Shims may
be used to achieve compliance.

[Kiesgen117]

Yeah I think the ride height can change due to shock absorbers, just not springs. I think that car has a good chance in DS at nationals this year.

[Dizmm]

its basically saying height can NOT be changed. if the spring perch is changed, you must do something (shims) to bring the seat of the spring back to stock height.

[snoxracer183]

Yeah I was afraid of that. This car really looks like it is in 4x4 mode. I know looks don't mean jack on the track though.

I'm really leaning towards doing DSP because not only do I want to be somewhat competitive at the track, I also want a car that looks nice driving everyday. I personally think the new car, although it has nice rims, has very week offsets and the 6 inches of wheel gap just kills me.

I guess the biggest dilemma I was having was debating between STU and DSP, and once I found out that STU includes modded A-stock cars it pretty much made up my mind where to run now.

[Dizmm]

do you just want to do SCCA-type events? You should come to some of the high speed Midwest Council events as well as some high speed lapping days.

[snoxracer183]

do you just want to do SCCA-type events? You should come to some of the high speed Midwest Council events as well as some high speed lapping days.

Yeah I think I would enjoy the high speed lapping/autocross day stuff much more. When I went with TK to blackhawk that just seemed like a blast. I suppose they class their cars differently so I should look into that as well.

[Mr. Fuji]

Ok,......
Here is my take-
Leave the car stock.
Mazdas are awsome.
(STOCK)
Take your money and buy track time.
Learn how to drive the car.
Mazda knows how to build reliable great handling cars.
Take your Aftermarket Whiz-Bang Gizmo money and buy as many Madison, FVSSC, E.C.T events as you can.
Learn how to drive YOUR car at those events.
Then, add some GOOD Tires and some GOOD Brake Pads. (Carbotech???)
Then, drive the car.
Drive the car.
Drive the car some more.
Drive the car even more.
Let a really good driver drive your car after you think your times are as fast as the car can go.
(Andy, Tom or Miccccckkkaya)
Now you know you still suck.
Ride with them in your car. Watch how they drive.
Learn
Go get another set of tires
(By now,you need them)
But ya got the cash becouse you didnt waist your $$ on aftermarket Who-Haaaz!.
Drive the car more.
Once you know nobody can drive your car faster than you.
Make small changes to the car.
Drive the car.
Now you have Improved
THEN Bolt on some junk (to get it out of your system)
Brake Down
Fix Car
Tell people (and yourself) it had nothing to do with the cool aftermarket junk you added.

[Kiesgen117]

^^^Roflcopter!!! DO this!

[northsydryd]

lmao

[devlish]

Mr Fuji does it again!!! amazing explanation of what SHOULD be done with a car!!!

but then again it seems nobody really does that these days anyways.

[VPT]

Put some race pedals in it and run in SM class with everyone else.

[Dizmm]

Few more things you can do without having seat time is reading. Knowing how everything works (slip angles, your suspension, the circle of grip, ect...) will also help you out on the track.

Few GOOD books:
Tune to win - carrol smith
Drive to win - carrol smith

He's also got a few more books out as well but start with those two. If you want to barrow them, let me know.

[snoxracer183]

Mr. Fuji, I think I am going to have to agree with you on this one (and whoever else said leave it stock)

Get a lot of track time in next year and hopefully get to the point where I have reached the limit of the car after many tracks days to improve the dufus behind the wheel. Plus the more I've looked, there really isn't crap out there for aftermarket parts because this car has only been out for 2-3 months. I'll let the other people find out what parts are the good ones for the new gen MS3.

Dizmm, I'll have to come borrow those books from you soon.

[EVILUTION]

You don't need any stinking books. Race tires on that car would be about as good as its gonna get. I doubt you will overwhelm the grip on an autox course. Skip burning off the expensive stock rubber and move to an extra set of rims with race tires. Then do little mods (AKA -CHEAT) and remain in stock class just like all the other cheating fuckers.

For grins I looked at the old thread and your reasons for selling the Z and oddly I don't see a stock MS3 working out very long.

[snoxracer183]

For grins I looked at the old thread and your reasons for selling the Z and oddly I don't see a stock MS3 working out very long.

Why do you say this?

EDIT: nevermind re-read your statement. I agree with you on your assesment now. I have very little track time so maybe if I just go out and track the hell out of the stock car I will not get so bored with it. Everyone that uses MS3s for tracking loves the car. That is what I am going to hope for for now. If not, DSP here I come.

[TomKat]

Race tires on that car would be about as good as its gonna get. I doubt you will overwhelm the grip on an autox course.

Then you are driving too slow. -Gas Gas Gas.

[Dizmm]

Then you are driving too slow. -Gas Gas Gas.

yup, if your not using up all your grip then drive faster. Evil, thats racing 101 if you read that book...

knowledge will make you faster. learn how/what your car is doing at all times and you'll be a faster/better driver.

[Mr. Fuji]

Can I have a ride in the Mazda Speed???
I love Mazdas.

[EVILUTION]

yup, if your not using up all your grip then drive faster. Evil, thats racing 101 if you read that book...

knowledge will make you faster. learn how/what your car is doing at all times and you'll be a faster/better driver.

Your 101 book sucks. It's impossible to use all grip at all times.

My point is that car has plenty of power but its going to have a hard time putting it down on an autox course. Get sticky tires then work on smooth consistent movements and control.

Bad advice to tell him to run street tires and use up all their grip. Bad Dizmm.

[snoxracer183]

Can I have a ride in the Mazda Speed???
I love Mazdas.

Sure can. I'm coming down to the party at Pete's tonight. I'm sure we can arrange something if that doesn't work.

[devlish]

don't think Mr fuji will at petes... will you???
if you are mrfuji... call me, i'm coming out to hear you sing karoake!!!!

[Dizmm]

Bad advice to tell him to run street tires and use up all their grip. Bad Dizmm.

who told him to run street tires? Race rubber for racing, street rubber for street. its simple.

[Mr. Fuji]

don't think Mr fuji will at petes... will you???
if you are mrfuji... call me, i'm coming out to hear you sing karoake!!!!

Dang!!
Missed this post. But thanks for the invite!!!.
Would love to come next time. Do my Tom Petty impersonation, yayy-yaaaaaa

[devlish]

^ sounds good. i'll buy the first round if you're singing!!