Auto X Golden Sands Speedway Sept. 27th

[TomKat]

Get your cars ready. GSS event is all set.

Night auto x to follow the regular event.

[Getsideways]

This will be lots of fun

[devlish]

sounds fun

[Ten2doyle102]

Night auto-x????? 8)

[highline_motorsports]

I hope it rains for this event!! Lots of fun!!

[Dizmm]

I hope it snows!

[Wolf///M3]

Oooo I like this idea

[StephaniEvo]

I hope it rains for this event!! Lots of fun!!
I hope it snows!

Hoping for it to be cold and crappy...not cool. Maybe you guys should do the cooking and provide the hot chocolate then.

[VPT]

I'm excited.

[DSM Girl]

Well I hope that we have the weather that we have had the past week or so.
I plan on running Destiny as long as she is still here.

[05Saab]

Ok...main event? night auto-x? inform me

[TomKat]

After the autocross we wait for darkness and start the night runs.

Better have good working headlights.

[05Saab]

I work till 7 i think....

[TomKat]

Perfect.

[northsydryd]

night runs at golden sands?im cool with that lets do it

[Pointdsm]

The night runs are fun if you seriously have good headlights. Without them...well..don't go inside and hit the rumblestrips!

[matthewhiggins118]

i plan on running will the cost be the same as last time?50 bucks? and will night time be extra?

[StephaniEvo]

The cost is $25 for members and $35 for non-members

[matthewhiggins118]

i paid 50 bucks at shawano

[StephaniEvo]

Shawano charges more...It's $35 for members and $45 for non-members...so you must have paid $45 or you paid $55 to become a member.

[TomKat]

There will be an extra charge for the night event. Or if you want to run only the night event there will be a charge for that. I have to figure out what we charged last year.

[matthewhiggins118]

when you find out could you post them up so i know if i have enough cash

[ragdoll]

Last year was cold and rainy...

http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/105724053/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/105724033/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/105724041/original.jpg

OM NOM NOM
http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/105164552/original.jpg

Night run

http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/105724428/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/105163725/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/105163727/original.jpg

PLUS... The track is riddled with billions of nails and after about 30 minutes, I actually found one on the track. No one knew how to handle the situation

http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/105163720/original.jpg




Well.....

Except for Tom

http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/105163723/original.jpg


He even was able to come up with a way to get it transported off the track

http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/105163724/original.jpg

[StephaniEvo]

Haha...I forgot about that. Damn nails.

[Selltech]

Thats great! The mazda will hopefully be there if I put a darn starter in it. (push starting it would suck!)

[Pointdsm]

Use the banking to roll down and jump start it? I want to come but work all day sunday. I will however be at the Milller Park autocross.

[TomKat]

Prices:

$25 for members
$35 for non members

Night autocross is $10 extra if you ran during the day.

If you want to run just at night:

$20 for members
$30 for non members

[matthewhiggins118]

alright im in for sure cant wait

[WhiteEightBall]

What time is the night event?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Damnit Tom, give me more info!!!!! I may show up just for the night event since I have to move during the day!

[TomKat]

I'll post up times for the night event when I get that figured out.

[WhiteEightBall]

Thanks Tom! I appreciate it, man.

[krazyk]

ill probably go.. I usualy have bad luck there...
Them nails on the track are no joke.. the last couple years in a row ive gotten a nail in one of my tires at golden sands now.

[WhiteEightBall]

Seriously? WTF is with nails on a damn TRACK?

[Dizmm]

unless you go off track, you should not have to worry about nails.

[devlish]

i never had a nail in my tire...

[Deadly_Evolution]

i never had a nail in my tire...

X2 even with my fwd EVO last year!

[devlish]

i think Evilution has everyone scared about that. but he's had a few cars there over the years as well, and i never remember him going home with a flat tire either.

[TomKat]

unless you go off track,

What if you are driving a rally car and want to go off track?

[StephaniEvo]

What if you are driving a rally car and want to go off track?


Then you probably have about a 10% chance of getting a nail in your tire











Disclaimer: The previous statement has not been scientifically evaluated.

[WhiteEightBall]

unless you go off track, you should not have to worry about nails.
You do remember who you're talking to right?

[grocerygetter]

I think the nails, if any, come from the eve of destruction.

[snoxracer183]

Do we have to pre-register for this?

[VPT]

fvscc should invest in a powered brush for the truck to clean tracks.

[northsydryd]

^or a magnet. but then you still have to deal with the aluminum nails.anyway im not scared of any nails ,my tires are junk anyway

[StephaniEvo]

We do have a big magnet. We do walk the track several times as well. If you get a nail or anything else in your tire...it's because you went of course. Wreck Fest (the new name for the Eve of Detestation) was also weeks ago already. There shouldn't be too much left on the track.

[shorty]

If we have time, zak and i might stop in... Depending on what we're doing cuz he leaves for Iraq again on the 28th...

[northsydryd]

We do have a big magnet. We do walk the track several times as well. If you get a nail or anything else in your tire...it's because you went of course. Wreck Fest (the new name for the Eve of Detestation) was also weeks ago already. There shouldn't be too much left on the track.

whiteeightball ,are you reading this ^???? means...keep it...on...the track

[TomKat]

Pre-registration not required.

[WhiteEightBall]

whiteeightball ,are you reading this ^???? means...keep it...on...the track
Again.... You do realize who you're talking to right? I really should have bought an evo or scoobie doo. Not like that would have helped any as far as nails go.

I can say I'll do what I can as far as staying on the track goes.....

[Dizmm]

is posihead coming to this event? i saw he had some sweet ass suspension on his whip, that thing should take FTD.

[devlish]

Again.... You do realize who you're talking to right? I really should have bought an evo or scoobie doo. Not like that would have helped any as far as nails go.

I can say I'll do what I can as far as staying on the track goes.....

you think a different car would help your driving skills??? hmmmm....

[highline_motorsports]

Need to drive the Scion to the MAX and more drivers seat time to see how you improve!! No need to jump into a different car and think you will be allot faster!

[VPT]

It all depends how the track is set up...

[Deadly_Evolution]

I think the nails, if any, come from the eve of destruction.

No way.. Jeske strategically distributes them on the track the night before.

[WhiteEightBall]

I never said anything about wanting or needing another car...

[Deadly_Evolution]

Need to drive the Scion to the MAX and more drivers seat time to see how you improve!! No need to jump into a different car and think you will be allot faster!

X2.. and personally I'd have to say. While an EVO/Subi, might seem like it would make things easier, IMO it's actually a LOT more of a handful. These cars make you want to drive fast, to the limit, and past it a lot of the time.. Creating new things to add into the curve. Heel toe shifting, threshold braking, awd drifting ! :)

[devlish]

I never said anything about wanting or needing another car...

.... I really should have bought an evo or scoobie doo...

hmph. we must have misread that second quote then. sorry.

[WhiteEightBall]

hmph. we must have misread that second quote then. sorry.
I was trying to refer to off roading in a car. You know, hit up some rally-x events since that's what I seem to be doing mostly anyway.

Though I really should have said that differently.... I meant not wanting or needing another car for auto-x and lapping days.

[northsydryd]

X2.. and personally I'd have to say. While an EVO/Subi, might seem like it would make things easier, IMO it's actually a LOT more of a handful. These cars make you want to drive fast, to the limit, and past it a lot of the time.. Creating new things to add into the curve. Heel toe shifting, threshold braking, awd drifting ! :)

you do realize that a few years ago the evo was called the best handling production car in the world right?
i dont know where i was going with that but who knows a different car might help.but its hard to compare an evo to a scion tc

[devlish]

oh, nevermind. then i really DID misread it. ha!

[WhiteEightBall]

^Not entirely on you man. It was a mix of misreading and me not wording it properly.

[05Saab]

you do realize that a few years ago the evo was called the best handling production car in the world right?
i dont know where i was going with that but who knows a different car might help.but its hard to compare an evo to a scion tc

Yeah but just because a car handles well, doesn't mean the driver who's driving it can handle it. You gotta know what your doing.

[Deadly_Evolution]

Yeah but just because a car handles well, doesn't mean the driver who's driving it can handle it. You gotta know what your doing.

Thank you very well said. If you're just driving the car even spirited driving the car does in fact handle like a dream, heck it even handles amazingly when pushed to and past the limits, but like Robert said you gotta know how to handle it at that point.

Lifting throttle when sliding is one of those things that you just don't do in an EVO or say hello to an off course experience.

[northsydryd]

i know what your saying but come on dude that car was made to go off course
i agree with you to a point but i dont think its as hard as your makin it out to be

[devlish]

driving a car past it's limits isn't as hard as he's making it sound?

most people have a hard time driving an EVO to its limit, much less past. there is a difference between reaching the limits of a car, and not knowing how to drive it in general and "thinking" you are at the limit due to lack of experiance.

[WhiteEightBall]

Experience of which I am gaining! After the lapping day I think I've improved by 100%. I just need to stop 1 bad habit and learn to control my braking better.

And you are definately right, learning the car is only half the battle andlearning how to drive your car is half of the rest of that. Learning the course is another part of the equation.

[Dizmm]

A car that handles like a dream is not being drivin near its limits.

[Ten2doyle102]

A car that handles like a dream is not being drivin near its limits.


I like that train of thought! I'll have to remember that.

[TomKat]

A car that handles like a dream is not being drivin near its limits.


So when I'm dreaming about driving should I push it harder?

[devlish]

^ you should always push it harder. You never really know where to stop until you reach that point.

[05Saab]

^ you should always push it harder. You never really know where to stop until you reach that point.

So when you hit a curb or a tree.....thats when you know your driving good? lol

[Dizmm]

So when you hit a curb or a tree.....thats when you know your driving good? lol

Those are just some small indicators that you’re driving beyond YOUR limits and not the car's.

[paulmeisterpk]

I should be there, and Mr. Fuji should be too. I'm also bringing a rookie that will be driving my car as well. Should be fun!

[StephaniEvo]

Hopefully my car will be done and ready for Sunday. I'll be there either way, but I'd like to be there with MY car.

[devlish]

my car has an exhaust leak... and a possible boost leak. going to fix exhaust leak first, then see about that boost leak. i plan to be there either way.

[TomKat]

Night autocross event schedule:

6:30pm to 7pm - registration

7:15pm - drivers meeting

7:30pm - first car out.

[VPT]

Its gonna rain...

[WhiteEightBall]

^ It's gonna fun? What? I don't think I read that right.

[Getsideways]

my car has an exhaust leak... and a possible boost leak. going to fix exhaust leak first, then see about that boost leak. i plan to be there either way.
How the crap does a top mount intercooled subaru get a boost leak?????

[05Saab]

Night autocross event schedule:

6:30pm to 7pm - registration

7:15pm - drivers meeting

7:30pm - first car out.

I'll be there when I can....whether I run or not be between 7 and 8

[krazyk]

looks like ill be there with a co driver in my car

[devlish]

How the crap does a top mount intercooled subaru get a boost leak?????

when one of the couplers get's a scratch in it, and one of the clamps is a wormgear clamp becuase the tbolt busted. not sure which one is the problem yet, need to try a tbolt first.

the exhaust leak seems to be fixed, but need to check the bottom bolt yet.

[Getsideways]

i havea couple tbolts laying around if you need to try one

[TomKat]

Who is going to win tomorrow?

Special prize for the "Chompion".

[turbo chick]

A Snickers???? I was just at the gas station and saw a Snickers bar with a wrapper that said "Chompion" Hmmm.....

[StephaniEvo]

Thanks to extreme by car is ready for the auto-x today...see you guys there.

[VPT]

Oh boy!

[VPT]

Fun times! Yet another AWD advantage start.

[devlish]

^ quite your bitchin'

[Getsideways]

Fun times! Yet another AWD advantage start.
Glad your finally seeing AWD is the way to go

[matthewhiggins118]

a quick video i threw together first time editing in about 15 min let me know waht you think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuDQbihEn-Q

[05Saab]

Tons of fun at the night runs. Less shitty tires would've helped. Took out plenty of cones, and did enough sliding and spinning for one night!

[Ten2doyle102]

Had a blast out there for the night racing! :) First spinning the car though! :) :) :)

[Pointdsm]

a quick video i threw together first time editing in about 15 min let me know waht you think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuDQbihEn-Q

I could only make it 15 seconds into the movie. Get rid of that disgusting music....

[DirtyBird]

o look their making a LEFT TURN!!!!

[006r]

I could only make it 15 seconds into the movie. Get rid of that disgusting music....

I agree...

[Getsideways]

Just thought I'd throw this out there having mid corner grip is amazing , thanks for lending me some rims andy , and the spacers TOM! ,,, i mean megan,,

[Dizmm]

Just thought I'd throw this out there having mid corner grip is amazing , thanks for lending me some rims andy , and the spacers TOM! ,,, i mean megan,,


thanks for lending me a car!

[VPT]

Street Modified is a pretty free-for-all class that is a full National class since 2002. For streetable sedans, expands eligible vehicles and modifications above Street Touring, above Steet Prepared, and perhaps even above Prepared category.

* All Street Prepared modifications are allowed, plus
* Unrestricted modification of engine, drive train, and suspension, and some other modifications, as long as the car uses highway fuels.

[VPT]

Turbo Blue Racing Gasoline has the high energy content, smooth distillation range and low vapor pressure necessary for carbureted, fuel-injected, super charged and turbo charged racing engines. Ideal for compression rations up to 14:1. Turbo Blue contains tetraethyl lead (TEL) and is for off-road use only.

[VPT]

Sooooo, Who all was running turbo blue all year and running in SM class?

[Dizmm]

Street Modified is a pretty free-for-all class that is a full National class since 2002. For streetable sedans, expands eligible vehicles and modifications above Street Touring, above Steet Prepared, and perhaps even above Prepared category.

* All Street Prepared modifications are allowed, plus
* Unrestricted modification of engine, drive train, and suspension, and some other modifications, as long as the car uses highway fuels.

please post the source. are you looking in the 09 scca solo rules?

[VPT]

http://moutons.org/sccasolo/index.shtml

[Dizmm]

Street Prepared, Street Modified, Prepared, and Modified class vehicles may use any grade of gasoline. Gasolines consist entirely of hydrocarbon compounds. Gasloine may contain antioxidants, metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, and lead alkyl compounds such as tetraethyl lead. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives are prohibited, except for those originally present in service station pump fuel. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing oil additives are prohibited in two-cycle engine oiling systems."

[VPT]

I have an idea for our own rules next year.

1. FWD street tire class
2. FWD R-compound class
3. AWD street tire class
4. AWD r-compound class
5. RWD street tire class
6. RWD r-compound class


No pax times, run what you brung.

Not one single person is in their right class right now anyway. This would be unmistakable! Oh your car is RWD and I see bald tires, number 6!

[VPT]

Street Prepared, Street Modified, Prepared, and Modified class vehicles may use any grade of gasoline. Gasolines consist entirely of hydrocarbon compounds. Gasloine may contain antioxidants, metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, and lead alkyl compounds such as tetraethyl lead. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives are prohibited, except for those originally present in service station pump fuel. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing oil additives are prohibited in two-cycle engine oiling systems."



Where do you get that from?

SCCA rule says highway fuels only, turbo blue is off road fuel only.

[Dizmm]

^ VPT, you were completly wrong!

Section 3.6
B. In addition to fuels which are allowed by 3.6.A, Street Prepared,
Street Modified, Prepared, and Modified class vehicles may use
diesel fuel or any grade of gasoline. Gasolines consist entirely of
hydrocarbon compounds. Gasoline may contain antioxidants,
metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors and lead alkyl compounds
such as tetraethyl lead. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives
are prohibited, except for those originally present in service
station pump fuel. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing oil additives
are prohibited in two-cycle engine oiling systems.

[Dizmm]

Where do you get that from?

SCCA rule says highway fuels only, turbo blue is off road fuel only.

go to SCCA.com and lookup the 2009 solo rules!

[TomKat]

Great event. Thanks to all that showed up.

I was really impressed with everyones driving I observed especially at night in the rain.

The love night events. Oh boy.

[VPT]

^ VPT, you were completly wrong!

Section 3.6
B. In addition to fuels which are allowed by 3.6.A, Street Prepared,
Street Modified, Prepared, and Modified class vehicles may use
diesel fuel or any grade of gasoline. Gasolines consist entirely of
hydrocarbon compounds. Gasoline may contain antioxidants,
metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors and lead alkyl compounds
such as tetraethyl lead. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives
are prohibited, except for those originally present in service
station pump fuel. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing oil additives
are prohibited in two-cycle engine oiling systems.




SM is a STREET class which means the car should be able to be driven on the street legally. Turbo blue is not legal to use on the street.

[VPT]

Plus turbo blue has oxygen in it which in your scca 2009 rules says its a NO NO!

[TomKat]

The fuel in the EVO came from a service station pump.

The rule does not say anything about lead in the fuel.

[Dizmm]

SM is a STREET class which means the car should be able to be driven on the street legally. Turbo blue is not legal to use on the street.

We are using SCCA rules, not the DOT's!

stop your bitchin, man up you slow ass!

[VPT]

You guys are all cheaters! Everyone is in the wrong class. This whole thing is all BS!

[StephaniEvo]

Fun event, thanks Tom and Joel (if you read this) for helping me.

[snoxracer183]

Thanks to everyone that helped me as well. Made my first Autocross really really fun!

[Dizmm]

Glad you guys had fun and made it out! The night event was fun, thanks to Mike with the RX8, that car was fun, hope I didnt beat on it too much for ya, wouldnt want to break your car.

[SgtRauksauff]

Dang, I really wanted to be there. Stupid rainstorms, and not having a big enough garage to work in the dry...

--sarge

[Deadly_Evolution]

I'm in the right class!


I do however agree I hate PAX. fuckin Pax guys.

[StephaniEvo]

Someone (Getsideways) put me in street mod >:(

[devlish]

^ weight reduction... no radio

i have no idea, that's just the rumor i heard going around.

[snoxracer183]

SM is a STREET class which means the car should be able to be driven on the street legally. Turbo blue is not legal to use on the street.

The only reason Tubro Blue is saying their fuel is for "off-road use only" is because it uses tetraethyl lead (TEL).

The rule specifically lists this ingredient as being legal in the SM class.

[northsydryd]

I have an idea for our own rules next year.

1. FWD street tire class
2. FWD R-compound class
3. AWD street tire class
4. AWD r-compound class
5. RWD street tire class
6. RWD r-compound class


No pax times, run what you brung.

Not one single person is in their right class right now anyway. This would be unmistakable! Oh your car is RWD and I see bald tires, number 6!

^i like this idea
anyway last night was awesome and the mid day fun runs were sick as hell to.i havent had that much fun in my car in a long ass time.realy fun track from dry to wet to night to day.it was an awesome layout who ever made it.

[VPT]

The only reason Tubro Blue is saying their fuel is for "off-road use only" is because it uses tetraethyl lead (TEL).

The rule specifically lists this ingredient as being legal in the SM class.


Turbo blue is 7.40 pounds per gallon not that standard 8 pounds per gallon for liquids. Know why? Because it has oxygen in it which is illegal in SM.

[VPT]

Seems like everyone is fighting for the cheaters. If thats the way everyone wants it, is so be it. Cheat away, run in lower classes and beat up on the people trying to race strait up. I quit trying to help out the honest people.

[abot316]

I have an idea for our own rules next year.

1. FWD street tire class
2. FWD R-compound class
3. AWD street tire class
4. AWD r-compound class
5. RWD street tire class
6. RWD r-compound class


No pax times, run what you brung.

Not one single person is in their right class right now anyway. This would be unmistakable! Oh your car is RWD and I see bald tires, number 6!
I like this, too.
The only reason I run R compounds is that I'm forced into SM. I already have them so I might as well. In all reality, my bigger brakes that require SM actually slow me down on tight AutoX courses. They are heavier, force me to use a bigger, heavier rim, and I can't use all their potential like at high speed lapping day. But what does it matter, it don't. I go out there to say fuck it, crank the Motorhead, and have a good time.

[TomKat]

I quit trying to help out the honest people.

LOL.

We try to class everyone correctly.

[Extremedsm]

LOL.

We try to class everyone correctly.

HA!!!!!!!!!!

[Dizmm]

Bring poopie over to me next time so I can properly class that car. I'm sure you're not 100% SM compliant.

[VPT]

Bring poopie over to me next time so I can properly class that car. I'm sure you're not 100% SM compliant.


LOL.

We try to class everyone correctly.



:this_is_stupid_yo:

[3ftcivic]

LOL.

We try....

I realize its hard to class everyone, and to go through each car. but I think tighter rules/ car checking should be enforced. Especially to class winners and club members.

[VPT]

Its as simple as:


1. FWD street tire class
2. FWD R-compound class
3. AWD street tire class
4. AWD r-compound class
5. RWD street tire class
6. RWD r-compound class


Obvious, no mistakes, no complaints.

Why should we have to follow scca classes when it is 90% cwscc members racing? scca classes and rules are all fucked up and junk, whoever wrote them should be drug out into the street and shot.

[Dizmm]

I realize its hard to class everyone, and to go through each car. but I think tighter rules/ car checking should be enforced. Especially to class winners and club members.

It is not our responsibility to make sure everyone is playing fair.

If you want to make it right, join the fucking club and do something.

[VPT]

But if he joined the club wouldn't he be (one of you guys) so it wouldn't be his job to make it fair than right?

So it is up to the car owner to class him/herself? Than why was I told I have to run in SM? I think I'm running in stock class next year!

[Dizmm]

But if he joined the club wouldn't he be (one of you guys) so it wouldn't be his job to make it fair than right?

So it is up to the car owner to class him/herself? Than why was I told I have to run in SM? I think I'm running in stock class next year!

Ok, read the F'n rules so you don’t look like a bigger idiot than you are.

Anyone can protest anyone's vehicle.

Start reading!!! www.scca.com (http://www.scca.com)

[3ftcivic]

It is not our responsibility to make sure everyone is playing fair.

If you want to make it right, join the fucking club and do something.

As a club it should be your responsibility to make sure everyone is playing fair, otherwise why compete?


I don't care enough anymore. Simply saying it would be a good idea to at the very least go through the winning cars of each class at the end of the year. Just a suggestion that the fvscc should look into...

[VPT]

Ok, read the F'n rules so you don’t look like a bigger idiot than you are.

Anyone can protest anyone's vehicle.

Start reading!!! www.scca.com (http://www.scca.com)



You said it isn't your responsibility to class cars. Well when someone protestests who has to inspect and make sure the car is classed right?


I know all about the scca bullshit rules.

[Dizmm]

As a club it should be your responsibility to make sure everyone is playing fair, otherwise why compete?


I don't care enough anymore. Simply saying it would be a good idea to at the very least go through the winning cars of each class at the end of the year. Just a suggestion that the fvscc should look into...

I would so love for you guys to join the board and help out with these events. Maybe you'll realize the work that goes into maintaining this club for you guys to have some good legal fun.

It’s honestly quite disturbing to hear complaints like this.

Like the rules state in the 2009 Solo Rules, you may protest anyone’s vehicle you want to.

[Dizmm]

I know all about the scca bullshit rules.

just like you cant use race fuels in SM right?

[VPT]

AAAAANANANANANNNND there were people that protested other peoples cars in the past and nothing was done about it... That was before your time mister dizzzmzmzmm back before you had a license to drive.

[VPT]

just like you cant use race fuels in SM right?


That contain oxygen, NO!

[3ftcivic]

I would so love for you guys to join the board and help out with these events. Maybe you'll realize the work that goes into maintaining this club for you guys to have some good legal fun.

It’s honestly quite disturbing to hear complaints like this.

Like the rules state in the 2009 Solo Rules, you may protest anyone’s vehicle you want to.




I find it disturbing that blatant cheaters are still awarded STS trophies at the end of the year.

[Dizmm]

AAAAANANANANANNNND there were people that protested other peoples cars in the past and nothing was done about it... That was before your time mister dizzzmzmzmm back before you had a license to drive.

so your complaining about shit from 8 years ago? maybe you should go post this on the OLD OLD OLD CWSCC forum then.

[VPT]

I am saying that even when what you say should be done is done it still doesn't matter.

[snoxracer183]

Turbo blue is 7.40 pounds per gallon not that standard 8 pounds per gallon for liquids. Know why? Because it has oxygen in it which is illegal in SM.

Unless using one of their "unleaded" fuels, there is no oxygen content. See proof in link.

http://www.turboblue.com/typical.asp

I'm not backing up the "cheaters". I too was interested in your claim yesterday and looked up the facts

[Dizmm]

I am saying that even when what you say should be done is done it still doesn't matter.

Took me a few times to read this.

you are looking for excuses, that’s what I am hearing from you!

If you have a problem with the club or anyone in it, please attend the fvscc board meetings! that’s where stuff like this is discussed.

[VPT]

And still nothing will be resolved. I know how those meetings go. It is all bullshit and will continue to be bullshit forever.

[VPT]

This thread is a PRIME example of how a board meeting goes. People complain about something that isn't right and the board tells them to go fuck themselves.

[Dizmm]

yup, because VPT's been to many FVSCC meetings. ha

[snoxracer183]

And still nothing will be resolved. I know how those meetings go. It is all bullshit and will continue to be bullshit forever.

I understand why you want to discuss these things, but before you want to argue and discuss things like this you really need read and understand all the facts. It's hard for anyone to seriously take any discussion from someone that has good intentions but just argues the wrong points/incorrect facts.

I know I have very limited experience with this club, but I did race snowmobiles for many years and have experience with the same "bullshit." It happens in any form of competition. Like Dizm said, if you want something to change bring the facts to a meeting and bring it up. It's hard for people to ignore someone that brings up legitimate issues with proven facts.

[TomKat]

so your complaining about shit from 8 years ago? maybe you should go post this on the OLD OLD OLD CWSCC forum then.

Post away VPT:

http://www.chatarea.com/CentralWisconsinSportsCarClub

[TomKat]

AAAAANANANANANNNND there were people that protested other peoples cars in the past and nothing was done about it.

All protests are/have been looked into. If there is no basis for the complaint then we can do nothing about it. If the protester can prove his case then something will be done about it.

[TomKat]

I find it disturbing that blatant cheaters are still awarded STS trophies at the end of the year.

If you know something then let me know please. Who and what they are doing.

If you want to volunteer to check over class winning cars at our events that would be great.

[TomKat]

We follow SCCA rules because making rules/classing cars for autocross is very very difficult. If we follow their rules it takes that out of the equation.

Also we run SCCA rules so that if any of our participants would like to step and up and go to a Milwaukee auto x event they will have an easy transition.

[Getsideways]

what are you complaining about vpt turbo blue is 100% legal in sm?????

[VPT]

yup, because VPT's been to many FVSCC meetings. ha



I have been to many meetings from government DNR meetings, blackhawk archers meetings, Department of AIG meetings, department of FWL meetings, and WFBDA meetings. I can tell you nothing ever goes in the little persons favor and the (board) is always right and like I said pretty much tells you to go fuck yourself.


Maybe fvscc meetings are different but that would be a first I have ever seen.

[VPT]

All protests are/have been looked into. If there is no basis for the complaint then we can do nothing about it. If the protester can prove his case then something will be done about it.



Dodge colt turbo....

[VPT]

We follow SCCA rules because making rules/classing cars for autocross is very very difficult. If we follow their rules it takes that out of the equation.


Took me 1 minute to write these up:

1. FWD street tire class
2. FWD R-compound class
3. AWD street tire class
4. AWD r-compound class
5. RWD street tire class
6. RWD r-compound class

[VPT]

what are you complaining about vpt turbo blue is 100% legal in sm?????



2008 it wasn't, must be to many (buddies) on the board that changed that for 09.

[Tcatt]

VPT, these guys are cheaters..

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:f9DzfA4cWX4J:community.grand-am.com/forums/thread/a63aec6a-1160-45b2-95e5-024c2b972150/1+apr+cheating+miller&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

[Getsideways]

2008 it wasn't, must be to many (buddies) on the board that changed that for 09.

So stop bitching about it , if you really want to see how you do against those other cars then look at them on the final results,,

[Deadly_Evolution]

All I have to say is thank you to everyone who puts on these events. I personally appreciate it greatly. It's cheap, it's local, it's fun, and run by people who are not jerks like I've ran into with a lot of other racing clubs or competitive sports I've been involved with over the years.

[snoxracer183]

All I have to say is thank you to everyone who puts on these events. I personally appreciate it greatly. It's cheap, it's local, it's fun, and run by people who are not jerks like I've ran into with a lot of other racing clubs or competitive sports I've been involved with over the years.

+1...Thank you!

[Dizmm]

So stop bitching about it , if you really want to see how you do against those other cars then look at them on the final results,,

http://www.fvscc.com/results/2009_summer/event9_gss_fin.htm

Pax: http://www.fvscc.com/results/2009_summer/event9_gss_pax.htm

night pax: http://www.fvscc.com/results/2009_summer/gss_night_pax.htm

[StephaniEvo]

Why was Nick Niedlein in a Civic Hatch??? He was driving the SRT-4. Nick and I registered at about the same time. I think his name was clicked instead of mine...cuz you guys had me driving poopie and him driving my car apparently. Oh well.

[devlish]

So stop bitching about it , if you really want to see how you do against those other cars then look at them on the final results,,

exactly... what's the big deal? i want to see how i do against Micaiahahaha and Metzger... i look at the final results and read them. i don't know or care what class they are in, they are driving similar cars.

how would different classes help you out VPT? are you going for PAX times that you are so concerned about what everyone elses classes are?

[VPT]

So stop bitching about it , if you really want to see how you do against those other cars then look at them on the final results,,




You think I don't look at results? Who doesn't look at the results? I see the same thing I seen all year, my little 2 door naturally aspirated 1.6 liter 160hp shit box in the same class as full blown AWD monster turbo 400hp race cars on a track set up by AWD owners for AWD drivers.


So now I know you guys are thinking well just get an awd turbo car if you wanna compete against these guys. Well I absolutely can't stand 4 doors, turbos, or mitsubishis. I like the cars that I like and I don't want to drive something else just to be competitive.

So now your thinking well be that way and just be a loser. This brings me to my point about scca classing. If you look at the results from the entire year you will see that the cars in SM place about the same all year. AWD turbo cars on top and FWD NA cars from the middle down. So why are these cars classed the same if the FWD's will never have a chance at being competitive? Classes are designed to keep cars in close competition of each other, otherwise why would we even have classes? I am trying to make the point that scca classing is fucked up and allot of people know it. Cars of totally different worlds are classed together and it sucks!

That is why I am making the notion of at least trying the simple classification that I wrote out earlier in this thread. Even if it is just for one event or what have you. Than no one would complain about coarse layout because they are competing against cars of the same nature. PAX guys may complain a bit but I think they would realize that they don't need an estimated PAX (handicap) to be competitive because they wouldn't have to worry about trying to beat cars of different levels. When you look at the results from the year you can see that most AWD cars have about the same times, most FWD cars have about the same times, and RWD cars have about the same times of each other. But when you look at all the cars as a whole you can see a definite advantage in the AWD cars against all others.


I am pretty sure I am going to be told to go fuck myself like always but I just have to make my point to at least try and make things more fair.

[VPT]

exactly... what's the big deal? i want to see how i do against Micaiahahaha and Metzger... i look at the final results and read them. i don't know or care what class they are in, they are driving similar cars.

how would different classes help you out VPT? are you going for PAX times that you are so concerned about what everyone elses classes are?


Because everyone wants a chance to win their class.

[Dizmm]

you want a sports car because its 2 door but yet its FWD. FWD is not the performance way at all. If you want a real performance car, get AWD or RWD.

your classings are so flawed. So a 240sx will be matched up to a ZR1 and a viper? That doesn’t make sense.

Also, your car has a full motor swap, complete gutted interior, internal tranny mods and all. on race rubber poopie should beat evo's. Ken and dale in there non-AWD non-turbo cars are kicking ass. whats your excuse?

Choose your mods carefully, not whatever parts are laying in your parts bin.

[devlish]

then join a different class.
i do agree to a point that SM could be broken down into FWD, RWD, AWD, it's way to open of a class.

[devlish]

Ken and dale in there non-AWD non-turbo cars are kicking ass. whats your excuse?
good point.

[Dizmm]

SM is open because almost all mods are allowed. Thats the entire point of SM.

[Deadly_Evolution]

Just a thought... how about on our "CWSCC" Shawano day.. lets try a different classing system.


Either way I just want to race and have fun, which I will do reguardless of how the classing goes.

[VPT]

See, go fuck myself.

[Dizmm]

I like the Midwest Council's classing system.

[VPT]

SM is open because almost all mods are allowed. Thats the entire point of SM.




And just about any mod put you in SM. So it is either stock class or SM....

[Dizmm]

See, go fuck myself.

Oct 6th, Gustman's Honda in Appleton at 8:00pm. You can present your classing structure to the boar and any other members that show up. Everyone can all vote. Majority rules.

And just about any mod put you in SM. So it is either stock class or SM....

The only difference from SM to SP is SM allows for internet mods or the addition of an aftermarket turbo/supercharger.

[VPT]

Also, your car has a full motor swap, complete gutted interior, internal tranny mods and all. on race rubber poopie should beat evo's.



You make it sound like poopie is modded to shit.

It has a motor from a civic si a lsd and a LS 5th gear for low highway rpms. The gutted interior saves like 20 pounds total.

So in the end my car is 20 pounds lighter, has 20 more hp, and a lsd.....

[VPT]

Oct 6th, Gustman's Honda in Appleton at 8:00pm. You can present your classing structure to the boar and any other members that show up. Everyone can all vote. Majority rules.



The only difference from SM to SP is SM allows for internet mods or the addition of an aftermarket turbo/supercharger.




Go fuck myself.


Stock class or SM...

[Dizmm]

You make it sound like poopie is modded to shit.

It has a motor from a civic si a lsd and a LS 5th gear for low highway rpms. The gutted interior saves like 20 pounds total.

So in the end my car is 20 pounds lighter, has 20 more hp, and a lsd.....

look at your avatar. I dont even see a dash. I also see a CF hood. thats probably 40lbs that i can see in JUST your avatar.

poopie should really be in EM with bluepy.

[VPT]

Hood weighs about the same as stock and there is no cluster cover, thats like a pound.

[VPT]

your classings are so flawed. So a 240sx will be matched up to a ZR1 and a viper? That doesn’t make sense.



All on matching tires in an auto-x it would be fair. Lapping day or road coarse no, but auto-x yes.

[snoxracer183]

I'm guessing that the SCCA has had years and years of experience into the classing system. When all the rules are followed for that class all cars running those rules to the full extent will be very competitive.

Look at my classing for example. I had to run in BSP because of my intakes and ended up 3 seconds behind Kurt. I have true street tires, intake and a cat-back exhaust that is it. The rest of my car is completely stock, zero suspension mods, engine tuning, r-compound tires, ect. Adding all allowable mods for BSP to my car I know that I can be competitive once I am to that setup.

If someone really cares to win, they will read the rules and use them to their full advantage. You can't just start doing mods to you car just because, and then in the end read the rules to find out that you have now disqualified yourself from running any of the lower classes.

You seem like someone that has been around long enough to understand this concept and I'm sure has had multiple cars in your years of autox. Originally, I really wanted to put an APR rear wing on my car for more rear grip, but reading the rules that would take me out of any of the SP classes.

So in the end it comes down to, do you want to race your car to win (read and mod your car per the rules) or do you want to mod the car the way it makes you happy (don't give a shit about the class and run what you brung and have fun)

There is no need to completely change the way everyone else has to follow the rules because you yourself want to make the rules so they fit you for the better.

[Dizmm]

^ Nicely put!

[devlish]

very well said snoxracer


for the record... i'm still running stock boost levels, and the only real mods are exhuast, lowering springs, x-frame brace (probably wouldn't notice it anyways) and R-compounds.

[snoxracer183]

very well said snoxracer


for the record... i'm still running stock boost levels, and the only real mods are exhuast, lowering springs, x-frame brace (probably wouldn't notice it anyways) and R-compounds.

I'm hoping for next year that my suspension (new sways and new shocks/springs) and r-compounds make me competitive in BSP (with a little bit of that ever so important driver mod as well).

[Dizmm]

TIRES TIRES TIRES make all the difference.

[Deadly_Evolution]

TIRES TIRES TIRES make all the difference.

Like ^ said.

[TomKat]

All on matching tires in an auto-x it would be fair. Lapping day or road coarse no, but auto-x yes.


LOL.

SM is a dump class for SCCA. SCCA does not like motor swapped vehicles and really doesn't put any effort into classing them. VPT has a point that his swap makes it unfair for him to compete in SM. I agree.

I also agree with what SnowXracer posted. Well said.

We can argue about classing for decades or we can just follow SCCA rules and have some fun.

[Dizmm]

its called smart modding! Dont be a fool and do a motor swap to gain 5% more HP.

anyone going to TT tonight? i want a ride.

[TomKat]

TT sounds good. We can argue all night about car classing.

Oh boy.

Maybe VPT should run with the Madison club. They aren't so mean to motor swapped cars.

[ZXTUNER]

thats why i never come my 2600lb shit box wouldnt be competitive in sm otherwise id love to partake

[05Saab]

My 160hp, 3800lb car is in SM. Oh well. I'm in it for the fun, not for the trophy right now.

[VPT]

Why is it such a big deal just to try other things now and than? This world was built on trial and error. Not following someone elses rules.

[Tcatt]

TIRES TIRES TIRES make all the difference.

i,e : my car stock boost some suspension mods an exhaust, ram-air and r-comps and I ran a 39.xx
Marks jetta which has the same mods i have minus r-comps and he has a chip. he ran like 42.xx

[DontStopMe]

Why is it such a big deal just to try other things now and than? This world was built on trial and error. Not following someone elses rules.

I like the way you think! Always a good thing to tell yourself every now and then.

[Dizmm]

you can learn a lot from learning the past. so before trying something "new" you should make sure the idea is "new."

[Mr. Fuji]

Weeeellllll,
Here is a comment.
Its harder and harder for clubs to find parking lots to have events.
Thank god we can get a track to use, and thanks to all the hard work of Tom, Andy, Joel, Dale, Ken, Maccccccccccccccccccccccia, Megan, and everyone else who works hard for the club, we get to have "Track" events.
Im just glad to race. Parking Lots or tracks.
Just put up a timer, and Im a happy camper.
I dont think VPT would be looking at class rules if we had traditional parking lot events.
Small, lighter, quick cars have the advantage.
I get my ass handed to me all the time by Hondas at those events.
I dont complain about class rules when I do.
There cars were faster that day .
Driven by drivers that used the car to there advantage, and drove better than me.

Thats a true old school auto cross.
But,.... thats been hard to do.
So lets just be happy we can race.

[devlish]

i was gonna say... traditional parking lot autoXs are not nearly as fun as the stuff we do at the circle tracks, lots higher speeds, and fewer cones navigate. I went to 2 traditional parking lot venues, (timberrattlers and MSCC about 7yrs ago) and it was slow with a LOT of turns and not a lot of speed. i'd rather do this stuff over parking lot stuff anyday.

[Deadly_Evolution]

i was gonna say... traditional parking lot autoXs are not nearly as fun as the stuff we do at the circle tracks, lots higher speeds, and fewer cones navigate. I went to 2 traditional parking lot venues, (timberrattlers and MSCC about 7yrs ago) and it was slow with a LOT of turns and not a lot of speed. i'd rather do this stuff over parking lot stuff anyday.

I can not agree more.. love having the non parking lot events. When I talk to people on EVO M and SRT forums about our events that are just in awe that we get to use such cool tracks to put on our events.

[devlish]

^ exactly... we think KK and GSS is a shithole,. but compare it to running a big flat parking lot at 50mph... this kicks ass!

[VPT]

I too love the big tracks and the higher speeds. I dislike the parking lot events. I feel that since all we do is big track events that is why we should look into different classing for vehicles to make it fair again. All I am suggesting is that we try it at one event just to see how it works out. If it turns out to be more unfair than what we have now we go back to SM classed 150hp fwd cars against awd 400hp monsters that clean up on the field.

I'm not asking anyone to donate their left testicle here.

[Dizmm]

I too love the big tracks and the higher speeds. I dislike the parking lot events. I feel that since all we do is big track events that is why we should look into different classing for vehicles to make it fair again. All I am suggesting is that we try it at one event just to see how it works out. If it turns out to be more unfair than what we have now we go back to SM classed 150hp fwd cars against awd 400hp monsters that clean up on the field.

I'm not asking anyone to donate their left testicle here.

All you have to do is take the GSS event, go through the results and reclass each car and resort the results. see how things look.

[VPT]

All you have to do is take the GSS event, go through the results and reclass each car and resort the results. see how things look.



I have, have you? Look like it would have been pretty tight competition to me.

[Dizmm]

I have, have you? Look like it would have been pretty tight competition to me.

post up your results! lets see it.

[abot316]

The only difference from SM to SP is SM allows for internet mods or the addition of an aftermarket turbo/supercharger.

If I understand this correctly, I should in SP all along....?, NOT SM

[TomKat]

If I understand this correctly, I should in SP all along....?, NOT SM

Changing the diameter of your brake rotors put you in SM. If you ran 140+ treadwear tires you could run STU.

[abot316]

Changing the diameter of your brake rotors put you in SM. If you ran 140+ treadwear tires you could run STU.


10 4, I thought the only class I could run was SM, so I figured I might as well get some used R compounds. Either that or can I have my own class, TPS(Throttle Pedal Steering)?

[IROC]

Sounds like my kind of club/group. Where do I go to join. LOL :cool:

[Kiesgen117]

^ exactly... we think KK and GSS is a shithole,. but compare it to running a big flat parking lot at 50mph... this kicks ass!

I know it seems this way, and I would agree with that in comparison to our old events. But Millwalke SCCA, and WAI's courses at miller park are on average about 5-10mph faster than Fvscc courses at wir. the track is wider and there is alot more competition! I would love to see some of you guys down there, at least once!

[TomKat]

Miller Park auto x events rock. Awesome parking lot and I've hit 3rd gear at events there a few times.

FVSCC tried using MSCC classes once. It was OK, but we are not going to run different classes because:

- We will let SCCA do all the car classing work.

-We do not want to argue about car classing. If you want to argue take it up with the SCCA

-We want to provide our participants with an easy step to move up to Milwaukee or Chicago events.

[ragdoll]

Remember this guy from last Miller Park auto x? Turned some good times, ha.


http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/104789535/original.jpg

[Kiesgen117]

Yeah I remember that, crazy fast!