Shawano 8-30-09

[VPT]

Anyone have any plans? I'll be leaving here at 7:30 sharp with the wife.

[05Saab]

Not sure what time I'm leaving at, but I'll be there. Might have to give one more auto-x a try this year after this....ordered a strut bar, and a 3-point frame brace for the front end.

[devlish]

the wifey is going too? wow.
i'm not sure if i'm going yet, but if i am, i'll be seeing you at 730!

[northsydryd]

cant afford it right this second but if anything changes before 730am i will be there

[WhiteEightBall]

I'll see you at your place VPT.

[VPT]

What a beautiful morning!!! Can't wait to pound poop.

[VPT]

Great time! Absolutely loved the start! I talked to quite a few people that liked the start just because they didn't have to launch their car over and over.

[05Saab]

The course was fun! Great time....just that crossing crap. Oh well. I was happy with my driving, and got alot of people's attention with my 2 wheel, near crashing, experience. Over the berm, up HIGH on 2, and sliding sideways, all at the same time! Didn't crash, so it was awesome! I'll get some pics up later, and hopefully I can give some of my footage to Paul.

[VPT]

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3231/shawano83009034.jpg

[devlish]

yes. fun day. great start!!

[Kiley]

What a beautiful morning!!! Can't wait to pound poop.

no one else caught on to this? ;)

[Extremedsm]

Ouch!!!

[Ten2doyle102]

Had a great day out there! I loved that start as well!

[Deadly_Evolution]

Personally I was not a huge fan of the start, it caused confusion, and if you look at the times it didn't help out the non awd cars like it was designed to do.. I would never be able to tell by looking at the times that a different kind of starting method was used. Even if my current car is awd I liked launching just as much when I was rocking fwd. Launching is FUN!

Either way though it was something new and I'm not against that, just didn't think it was all that great. Cool way to change it up.

Had a fun day overall, some nice early morning drifting in the EVO and thanks to Getsideways for showing me just how slow I am in my own car.

[TomKat]

I liked the start also, but the course layout in general did not work so good. 3 crossovers made for a very nervous day.

[paulmeisterpk]

I loved the start, my clutch loved it too. Other than the crossovers, I liked the course layout. But my RS didn't like the track as much as Kaukauna.

[WhiteEightBall]

I had a GREAT day. Tons of fun. Thanks to... well.... EVERYONE for showing me how slow I am in my own car. Thanks to Joel and Andy for pointing out how I should drive though. I learned alot from you guys today. Hopefully I can put to practice what I learned.

TONS of footage. Currently converting it to MP4 format so I can do editing. I'll be slapping up actual laps and my incar footage asap though. I'll have an actual video up this week.

Paul, let me know if you need/want the footage I got from this event.

[Ten2doyle102]

In car footage. Fast forward to about 2:45 for the start and everything after is pointless. I forgot to shut off the camera so I got about 5-6min of people just walking around.... :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYHtxLtVIho&feature=channel

And some other little clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfKMH0FEIFI&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD0j25ZhysE&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8rLH45SCzQ&feature=channel

[Scrad]

I like the way we started. If I would have known about it I might have brought my kart out. I thought the layout was fun. Good job guys.

[Dizmm]

Personally I was not a huge fan of the start, it caused confusion, and if you look at the times it didn't help out the non awd cars like it was designed to do.. I would never be able to tell by looking at the times that a different kind of starting method was used. Even if my current car is awd I liked launching just as much when I was rocking fwd. Launching is FUN!

Either way though it was something new and I'm not against that, just didn't think it was all that great. Cool way to change it up.

Had a fun day overall, some nice early morning drifting in the EVO and thanks to Getsideways for showing me just how slow I am in my own car.

This sorta proves my point that the launch is not everything in an auto-x.

[Deadly_Evolution]

Exactly.. shows that the same fast drivers are going to be fast with or without it. However just like anything else those can complain about our awd launching will complain about it.

[Dizmm]

I really liked seeing a lot of new guys in the top 10 on Pax.

Thanks GSW for driving me home, never would have made it without you.

[TomKat]

Some really close times in SM.

Deadly Evolution beat Kronztek by .003 seconds.

Kronztek beat Turbo Chick by .006 seconds.

Now that is some close racing.

[Dizmm]

I love it!

cant wait for the next BHF High Speed Auto-X! Should be some very intense competition.

[StephaniEvo]

Thanks to those who let me drive their car and to those who let me hitch a ride in their car. Also, thanks to everyone who made the event possible. Hope to see you guys at the lapping day soon.

[Getsideways]

I love it!

cant wait for the next BHF High Speed Auto-X! Should be some very intense competition.

yay

[VPT]

The start did to help the non awd guys. Look at my times from the leaders with a dead start at shawano to the times with a rolling start.



dead start: http://www.fvscc.com/results/2009_summer/event5_shawano_raw.htm


Rolling start: http://www.fvscc.com/results/2009_summer/event8_usair_raw.htm


Consistent 2 second improvement across the board against the awds.

[WhiteEightBall]

Hmmm. I'll have to check out the next BHF event....

[DSM Girl]

I had fun out there. Thanks Tomkat for letting me run the Evo and thanks to everyone who gave me pointers!!

[TomKat]

The start did to help the non awd guys. Look at my times from the leaders with a dead start at shawano to the times with a rolling start.

Consistent 2 second improvement across the board against the awds.

You can't compare these times. Different day - different tires on the lead cars.

At that first auto x at Shawano the start was on a downhill slant and if I remember right the only one doing the stutter box launches was the burgundy DSM.

In some instances a stutter box AWD launch is an advantage. About .2 seconds advantage. Not 2 seconds.

[WhiteEightBall]

PICS! Currently having problems with streetfire. It'll get to the upload screen, it'll begin the upload, it will upload but as soon as it reaches the 100% uploaded mark, ... nothing. I let it go all day with the nothing until even my video card had to quit. Fixed that by baking it in the oven so it must have been a solder issue, but still nothing on the uploading to streetfire bit.... Maybe tomorrow.

Anyway, on with the pics, yo!

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/WhiteEightBall/Auto-X/DSC00017.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/WhiteEightBall/Auto-X/DSC00018.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/WhiteEightBall/Auto-X/DSCN0451.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/WhiteEightBall/Auto-X/DSCN0457.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/WhiteEightBall/Auto-X/DSCN0463.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/WhiteEightBall/Auto-X/DSCN0461.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/WhiteEightBall/Auto-X/DSCN0466.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/WhiteEightBall/Auto-X/DSC00019.jpg

[TomKat]

I had fun out there. Thanks Tomkat for letting me run the Evo and thanks to everyone who gave me pointers!!

You're welcome. Glad you came out and raced. Now you are ready to compete in your white EVO.

[Deadly_Evolution]

The start did to help the non awd guys. Look at my times from the leaders with a dead start at shawano to the times with a rolling start.



dead start: http://www.fvscc.com/results/2009_summer/event5_shawano_raw.htm


Rolling start: http://www.fvscc.com/results/2009_summer/event8_usair_raw.htm


Consistent 2 second improvement across the board against the awds.

Yet the end results were pretty much exactly the same for placing.

[VPT]

You can't compare these times. Different day - different tires on the lead cars.

At that first auto x at Shawano the start was on a downhill slant and if I remember right the only one doing the stutter box launches was the burgundy DSM.

In some instances a stutter box AWD launch is an advantage. About .2 seconds advantage. Not 2 seconds.



Thats not what WIR says...

[TomKat]

Thats not what WIR says...


I'll let Evil handle this one.

[Extremedsm]

You're welcome. Glad you came out and raced. Now you are ready to compete in your white EVO.

LMFAO!!!!!!! Ahahahahaahhahahaaaa!!!!!

[Getsideways]

The start did to help the non awd guys. Look at my times from the leaders with a dead start at shawano to the times with a rolling start.



dead start: http://www.fvscc.com/results/2009_summer/event5_shawano_raw.htm


Rolling start: http://www.fvscc.com/results/2009_summer/event8_usair_raw.htm


Consistent 2 second improvement across the board against the awds.

Thats complete BS because that shawanoo event started right before a corner none of the AWD cars were launching there either

[DSM Girl]

Ass.

[Extremedsm]

In some instances a stutter box AWD launch is an advantage. About .2 seconds advantage. Not 2 seconds.

You are so full of shit!!!! Go back and look at the 60 foot challenge. .2 seconds, you damn clown!!!

AWD:

1. Getsideways(EV0)..................1.77
2. Dizmm (STI).........................1.83
3. Mr. Fuji (STi).........................1.86
4. Turbo Chick (DSM)..................1.87
4. Highline (EV0)........................1.87
5. 02 WRX (WRX).......................1.90
6. Devlish (STI)..........................1.94
7. TomKat (EVO)........................1.97
8. Deadly Evolution (EVO)............2.13
9. Kristin (EVO)..........................2.15
10. Race Ramps (STI)..................2.31

Wrong wheel drive:

1. Rapids Chick (SRT4)............2.30
2. 3footer (CRX)....................2.43
3. Ron (Civic)........................2.45
4. Niggs (Civic Si)..................2.50
5. Turbo Focus......................2.53
6. Selltech (Mazda)................2.56
7. Brenton (Focus).................2.57

[TomKat]

Funny. Where was VPT for this 60' challenge?????

If I remember right he got a 1.9 60' time at a WIR test and tune on crappy tires. That would be about one tenth of a second advantage against the fastest AWD car in the test.

What about this one:

Correct Wheel Drive:

1. Jared (Panoz).....................2.02

Gosh that would be about two and a half tenths of a second advantage.

[Extremedsm]

Track is preped and concrete is not you clown.

[TomKat]

Track is preped and concrete is not you clown.


The track is not prepped on a test and tune night Bozo. I was there - no track prep.

And where was VPT? Hmmm.

[Extremedsm]

You damn well know that a 1/4 mile track is WAY stickier than concrete.

[Deadly_Evolution]

That slab of concrete was damn sticky, I could not get my tires to break loose at all.

Just as a reference..With the SRT 4, my 60 ft. times at WIR on street tires was 2.2-2.4. When it was stock. Exactly in the same margin the same car put down at MSS 60 ft. challenge.
1. Rapids Chick (SRT4)............2.30


Either way .2 seconds is a lot more on target.

[TomKat]

You damn well know that a 1/4 mile track is WAY stickier than concrete.

Oh boy you really know your drag racing. How many times have you drag raced at a track?

How many runs have you made at a track?

If they are not putting down traction compound a drag strip is slippery as hell.

Didn't we do the 60' challenge on the pavement? Anyways it was grippy as hell that day.

[VPT]

Funny. Where was VPT for this 60' challenge?????

If I remember right he got a 1.9 60' time at a WIR test and tune on crappy tires. That would be about one tenth of a second advantage against the fastest AWD car in the test.

What about this one:

Correct Wheel Drive:

1. Jared (Panoz).....................2.02

Gosh that would be about two and a half tenths of a second advantage.




I didn't even waste my time with that lame ass 60 foot challenge. Everyone knows an awd car has an advantage if there is a strait dead start. 60' does not tell the whole story either, awd cars still make up more time over the single drive axle cars after the 60 because they have more speed from the launch. It is also way more than .2 of a second. If you believe that awd cars only get a .2 advantage or believe that awd cars don't have an advantage on a dead start your just retarded.

[EVILUTION]

Its nice to see VPT itemize the strengths of AWD.

Good to know he understands they are superior.

[VPT]

In a strait line from a dead stop yes they have an advantage. Besides that they are tire, brake, turbo, bearing, timing belt, wheel, starter, valve, piston, curb, air filter, x-mass tree, acd eating POS crap boxs.


Yes I ripped on every awd car and owner on this forum all in one sentence.

[WhiteEightBall]

^ I love you.

[Ten2doyle102]

:( Its true though... :(

[Dizmm]

300whp + AWD = great auto-x car.

AWD is great for slow speeds, but after 40+ mph, its mostly extra weight.

There is one basic rule with auto racing, and its there are NO excuses. Everyone has the exact same opportunity, NO exceptions!

[VPT]

There is one basic rule with auto racing, and its there are NO excuses. Everyone has the exact same opportunity, NO exceptions!



The bank doesn't give everyone the opportunity to buy a $25,000 car for auto-xing.

[Dizmm]

The bank doesn't give everyone the opportunity to buy a $25,000 car for auto-xing.

HAHA, banks wont give you money if you dont have a job.

So, to recap for VPT...

Wake up early > find job > get job > make money > buy something better than a POS oil burning honda > take FTD > complain about something else.

The only excuse you have is your a lazy!

[VPT]

I'm 30 years old, my life is 45% over. Why the hell would I want to waste my life away working for some fuck knob so he can make money off my very short lived life on this earth?

Fuck wasting life away working!

[Extremedsm]

I guess the next time we are at MSS we have to set up the 60 foot challenge right from our starting line so Tomkat can see how dumb he is. .2 seconds, that is just way to funny.

[Dizmm]

I'm 30 years old, my life is 45% over. Why the hell would I want to waste my life away working for some fuck knob so he can make money off my very short lived life on this earth?

Fuck wasting life away working!

Find a job you enjoy. Why would you want to waste your life sitting at home playing online games all day.

I guess some people don’t like that feeling of achievement.

[VPT]

I don't enjoy any jobs. I don't sit on online games. I go out and do what I like when I like. I may just take the hovercraft out today and go fly around.

[Dizmm]

I don't enjoy any jobs. I don't sit on online games. I go out and do what I like when I like. I may just take the hovercraft out today and go fly around.

I think we need to go back to Jr High where they go over finding a career that fits you. There is something out there for everyone.

If you simply don’t like to work at all, then that’s your excuse....laziness, and you deserve to drive an old rusted out honda civic.

[VPT]

No it is not laziness. It is looking at life in the big picture. We have about 75 years to live on this earth. Why the fuck would anyone want to waste any time working for some other douche? I would much much rather spend my limited time doing what I want to do rather than helping someone else make money.

If you ask me the working folks are the stupid one. Ask any dieing person what they wish they did in life and I bet you anything you will not find 1 that would say I wish I worked more.

[snoxracer183]

Bet you could find one that said he wished he had more money so he could afford more than a Honda though...

[Dizmm]

^ thanks for explaining your views on life, and it explains why you still have a POS honda that most 16 year olds have as their first car.

I do look back and see where i can improve, and i try harder. I guess some just like to settle for what they have and not try anymore.

[VPT]

You have to elaborate on the honda thing because there are $60K hondas guy.

[VPT]

^ thanks for explaining your views on life, and it explains why you still have a POS honda that most 16 year olds have as their first car.



That doesn't explain anything. You guys see me drive a POS honda all the time and judge. Its hilarious if you actually know.

[devlish]

Some people enjoy work. this is an extreme measure, but Mother Theresa, her job was to help people, and you know damm well she wished she could still be helping others. :-) i win.

granted, she didn't even have a rusted honda, and that's a pretty far stretch from what you were talking about i'm sure... but the point is, some people DO enjoy their work. it can be very rewarding. a feeling of accomplishment. i enjoy my work most days, and it's not even that rewarding. it's a challenge of something new everyday. plus, the harder i work the more toys i can buy just to piss you off with my AWD!!

[Dizmm]

You have to elaborate on the honda thing because there are $60K hondas guy.

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss39/fvscc/2009%20FVSCC%20Event1%20WIR/IMG_0001.jpg

[Extremedsm]

Poopy power!!!

[VPT]

Its gonna be funny when that POS honda beats you guys.

[Dizmm]

That doesn't explain anything. You guys see me drive a POS honda all the time and judge. Its hilarious if you actually know.

if you choose to live your life how you are, that’s fine, I don’t care. However you don’t have a right to complain that others have a "superior car" than you because you don’t have a job.

Like I said before, NO Excuses, except laziness.

[VPT]

I'm not complaining about your shit box's. I am complaining about track layouts. Pay attention guy.

[Dizmm]

I'm not complaining about your shit box's. I am complaining about track layouts. Pay attention guy.

Everyone knows an awd car has an advantage


If you believe that awd cars only get a .2 advantage or believe that awd cars don't have an advantage on a dead start your just retarded.


You got my 110% attention VPT.

[northsydryd]

rusted pos honda or not that thing is 1 hell of a sleeper and sure as hell aint the slowest car at the track.i fu@$^&% hate hondas but i like poopie ,that things a trooper.
anyway im with vpt why bust your ass to make money for some douchebag who probably does apreciate it anyway not to mention alot of money goes into these cars that alot of the time just get the living shit kicked out of them on a daily basis when you can find a $1000 car to have fun with and not be mad when you break it
my eclipse aint all that and a bag of chips but if it breaks i will fix it and if somone pisses me off enough i wont be out a shitload of money using my car to take theirs off the road (not a threat just a comment)

[Dizmm]

If you feel your working for some D-bag, find a new job.

The harder I work, the more money I make.

[northsydryd]

true dat.im not judging anyone just adding my 2 cents

[VPT]

You got my 110% attention VPT.


It all started about track layouts and a rolling start. Dead starts an awd has an advantage, I was getting at the idea that all auto-xs should have a rolling start or a offset gate right off the start.

[Dizmm]

It all started about track layouts and a rolling start. Dead starts an awd has an advantage, I was getting at the idea that all auto-xs should have a rolling start or a offset gate right off the start.

track layout is always different. if you want to setup a course layout, come early! I'd love to have someone else setup the course for us!

[VPT]

I'm not on the fvscc board, I can't set shit up.

Its easy, rolling start or offset gate off the start.

[Dizmm]

I'm not on the fvscc board, I can't set shit up.

Its easy, rolling start or offset gate off the start.

You dont have to be on the FVSCC board, you are a club member.

[VPT]

Nah, I don't want people complaining to me about the coarse layout.

[Ten2doyle102]

I'll make one! LOL!

[WhiteEightBall]

The next 60' time, I'm going to do it. I'm curious about the 60' I'm capable of in my car because I can launch that bitch pretty fcking hard.

[TomKat]

nah, i don't want people complaining to me about the coarse layout.


lol.

[TomKat]

Its gonna be funny when that POS honda beats you guys.

Not with the AWD guys setting up the course. LOL.

[TomKat]

I guess the next time we are at MSS we have to set up the 60 foot challenge right from our starting line so Tomkat can see how dumb he is. .2 seconds, that is just way to funny.

An easier way to explain this to Extreme since he has a hard time understanding how things work:

Next autocross Extreme should bring his EVO. Do half of the runs launching and the other half without launching the car alternating between the two starting methods. Look at the results. End of argument.

[highline_motorsports]

Its not about haveing a older car that is cheaper to keep runing, to me its a car that I can relax in on the way to the track and beat the piss out of it at the track with no issues and drive home with the ac and the navi on!!
To me putting money into a old car evey month or whatnot is a waste you could be taking that money and makeing a payment on something you really enjoy and are proud of!!

Just my.02 everyone is different if we wern't this world would be really fu**ing boreing!!

[Ten2doyle102]

I agree with you that owning something that doesn't need to get fixed every other day is nice, but at the same time its fun owning an old car. My car gives my lots of headaches just like yesterday after I found that another axle boot is ripped, but that's the way it goes. Personally, I be more proud of driving a car that i put alot of time into than just say having a evo/sti/s2000/or whatever that I can mod cause instead of buying stuff for it, I'm just paying it off. I don't know....that's just me. I just think its more rewarding when you can go out and stomp cars that should be able to beat you.

[Dizmm]

I just think its more rewarding when you can go out and stomp cars that should be able to beat you.

When your car breaks on ya and you miss out on some track time, then you deal with no reward.

[SgtRauksauff]

^^Hell yeah.

Sure, my car's 24 years old. Do I need to fix it every day? HELL no! Engine needed to be rebuilt after 212,000 miles, after lots of hard use. Suspension bushings need to be replaced. Maybe a damper or two. Let's see anything made in the last ten years have that kind of life....

20+ year-old cars need maintenance, sure. So do 5+ year old cars. it's just the standard maintenance interval for certain parts hasn't arrived yet for newer cars.

And insurance is about 1/6 the cost for an older car than for a new car, that you're required to pay for full coverage, since you've got a loan out on it.

--sarge

[Ten2doyle102]

When your car breaks on ya and you miss out on some track time, then you deal with no reward.


Same thing could happen to you guys with the way you beat on your cars. Its only a matter of time before you bust an axle or something doing al those launches and stuff. Only when that happens you'll have new parts, no car AND a car payment.....

[Dizmm]

sarge, a 20 year old car will need a lot more replaced than a 5 year old car. thats a no brainer.

With a new car, you have a MUCH less chance of being stranded at the track than an older car. I dont want to take the risk when i drive 500+ miles to a track.

I would like an older little civic to beat on at auto-x events, if it breaks, i'll give it away.

Same thing could happen to you guys with the way you beat on your cars. Its only a matter of time before you bust an axle or something doing al those launches and stuff. Only when that happens you'll have new parts, no car AND a car payment.....

They have a warranty IF something were to break. My STi has been beat, and i never ONCE had to replace a single thing.

[northsydryd]

my goal with every car i have ever owned was to find the weakest link.if that means being stranded at the track missing out on track time or fun then so be it.thats the gamble everyone faces being on a track or even on the street

[Deadly_Evolution]

Honestly though I think a lot of the guys who have these older cars would quickly have a change of heart if they actually had a newer, nicer car. Not trying to start any fires but I've been on both sides of the story and when I was rocking an older car with alot of "work" stuck into it, I thought it was the shit. Now that I have a newer nicer car, I realize the older car was just mostly shit. You make the best with what you have, and have fun.

There is nothing wrong with driving and liking an older car but there is also nothing wrong with doing the same with a newer car.

[Ten2doyle102]

sarge, a 20 year old car will need a lot more replaced than a 5 year old car. thats a no brainer.

With a new car, you have a MUCH less chance of being stranded at the track than an older car. I dont want to take the risk when i drive 500+ miles to a track.

I would like an older little civic to beat on at auto-x events, if it breaks, i'll give it away.



They have a warranty IF something were to break. My STi has been beat, and i never ONCE had to replace a single thing.


What's the car payment on that car anyway??? I am just wondering. Or something like a EVO too.. I would like to get a newer car so i didn't have to work on it all the time too...that would be nice.

I just don't know what would still be a fun to drive around in and durable enough to take to the track. I love my IX, but fixing it all the time is getting old.

[highline_motorsports]

The GG EVO IX I had was pnly $148/mo and my EVOX isnt much more than that!! But good luck trying to match it!! Unless you have a good down payment!!

The guy that had the EVOX befor me was paying almost $700/mo now I would never be able to afford that + insurance!!

[Dizmm]

http://www.centralcitycu.com/infodesk/loan_calc.html


Lets say you want to buy DontStopMe's Evo for $15000 and you have $4k to throw down after you sell your beater Honda.

with a 36 month loan, with an interest rate of 7% which shouldnt be too hard to find. your monthly loan payment would be about $339.

$340 a month to have a car thats much newer, needs MUCH less, can do just about anyhing including pickin up the kids from school.

[Extremedsm]

An easier way to explain this to Extreme since he has a hard time understanding how things work:

Next autocross Extreme should bring his EVO. Do half of the runs launching and the other half without launching the car alternating between the two starting methods. Look at the results. End of argument.

I brought up the 60 foot challenge thing. If you are to stupid to see the numbers in front of your face, so be it.

[Ten2doyle102]

I suppose....that only problem that I'd run into in Insurance. I'd need full coverage on that which would probably quadruple my rates totally about $250/mo + that $340 comes up to almost $600.

Right now for my two cars and insurance, I am running less that $225.

I guess its a horse a piece though cause everything that money I save by having two older cars vs one new car is eaten up by replacement parts.

[devlish]

extreme knows what warranty is all about.

[TomKat]

I bought up the 60 foot challenge thing. If you are to stupid to see the numbers in front of your face, so be it.

Next event we'll put the display in the passenger seat of your EVO. Then you can do the alternating launch - no launch start and you can see right away how much time you gain.

Get to work on Rapid's Chick's car. We'll continue this argument at the next event.

[VPT]

Who says older cars don't hold up? I've missed 1 auto-x this year because of the wife and all I did was change the oil once and put gas in. Only other thing I can think of that I did was change the brake fluid.

[Dizmm]

Who says older cars don't hold up? I've missed 1 auto-x this year because of the wife and all I did was change the oil once and put gas in. Only other thing I can think of that I did was change the brake fluid.

you've only auto-x'd your car. bring it to a few high speed lapping days!

[devlish]

^ agreed. autoX's are fun... so is Shawano... but can Poopie last all day at BHF?

[Extremedsm]

Next event we'll put the display in the passenger seat of your EVO. Then you can do the alternating launch - no launch start and you can see right away how much time you gain.

Get to work on Rapid's Chick's car. We'll continue this argument at the next event.

Keep saying that since you know I will not auto-x my evo's.

Oh, nevermind. I figured it out. I know why Tomkat figures there is no difference between an awd and fwd launch. If you watch Tomkat launch his evo, it goes run nun nun nun nun nun - BAH. Falls right on its face. Aahahahahahaahhahaaha!!!

[northsydryd]

everybodys just froggy as hell and talkin shit to each other today arent they

[WhiteEightBall]

^ Seems like it.

Want ot getin on it?

YOU A BITCH NORTHSYDRYD??!?!?!??!111101!!!11ONE11!!!!11!

[Dizmm]

i love this shit!

[Draven8795]

Keep saying that since you know I will not auto-x my evo's.




How come you won't auto-x the evo's?

[Extremedsm]

I am old and can't see that well. Don't like come marks on my cars.

[EVILUTION]

Ah you see I'll tell you his dirty little secret. Honda's have an unfair advantage because they are lighter and narrower. Its hard to get heavy car to change direction let alone stop. All that momentum is hard to control often putting the car up on three wheels! Keep in mind that a big wide grocery getting EVO is a very tight fit through some of those gate where as a honda has a couple feet on each side. This talk about AWD launches and BIG power is all a distraction. If you look at the top to quickest cars from the event they weren't AWD. They were light little shit boxes one of them was even a honda.

[VPT]

Why you gotta be hatin on the little guy?

[TomKat]

If you watch Tomkat launch his evo, it goes run nun nun nun nun nun - BAH. Falls right on its face.

Too much traction that day. I recall you having that problem with your Uber EVO also. Ah ha ha ha ha ah ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha. Hah.

If she doesn't want to spin that's fine I'd rather save the clutch.

[TomKat]

Keep saying that since you know I will not auto-x my evo's.



Afraid that I'm correct? Well if you want to just keep on talking shit I guess that is fine. Personally I'd rather race and end the argument that way.

[Extremedsm]

AWD:

1. Getsideways(EV0)..................1.77
2. Dizmm (STI).........................1.83
3. Mr. Fuji (STi).........................1.86
4. Turbo Chick (DSM)..................1.87
4. Highline (EV0)........................1.87
5. 02 WRX (WRX).......................1.90
6. Devlish (STI)..........................1.94
7. TomKat (EVO)........................1.97
8. Deadly Evolution (EVO)............2.13
9. Kristin (EVO)..........................2.15
10. Race Ramps (STI)..................2.31

Wrong wheel drive:

1. Rapids Chick (SRT4)............2.30
2. 3footer (CRX)....................2.43
3. Ron (Civic)........................2.45
4. Niggs (Civic Si)..................2.50
5. Turbo Focus......................2.53
6. Selltech (Mazda)................2.56
7. Brenton (Focus).................2.57

Sit there and stare at it long enough, maybe you will understand. Or do you have some kind of Tomamatics that we do not know about???

[camaro_guy]

where did robert place? lol

[TomKat]

Sit there and stare at it long enough, maybe you will understand. Or do you have some kind of Tomamatics that we do not know about???

OK. Instead of proving this we can just keep arguing here. Keep posting half of the results because that really helps prove your point.

You are comparing apples to oranges and you can look at those 60' times until you are blue in the face. Or you could actually try launching/not launching and see what really happens.

Tomamatics - Real world results with proof. Not just theory. Looking at 60' times can give you a theory of what can happen. Running at an autocross alternating between launching and not launching would be real proof.

OK Extreme now you can make another post and say - Look at the 60' results. Oh boy. That in theory proves that an AWD launch at an auto x gives you a 2 second advantage. We have no hard data to back it up, but it's a good guess. I guess.

[TomKat]

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn145/cavy94/P8290021.jpg

[VPT]

OK. Instead of proving this we can just keep arguing here. Keep posting half of the results because that really helps prove your point.

You are comparing apples to oranges and you can look at those 60' times until you are blue in the face. Or you could actually try launching/not launching and see what really happens.

Tomamatics - Real world results with proof. Not just theory. Looking at 60' times can give you a theory of what can happen. Running at an autocross alternating between launching and not launching would be real proof.

OK Extreme now you can make another post and say - Look at the 60' results. Oh boy. That in theory proves that an AWD launch at an auto x gives you a 2 second advantage. We have no hard data to back it up, but it's a good guess. I guess.



I have a better idea!!! Tom will run half his runs in awd, than the second heat we will pull his driveshaft out and make him run.

[Dizmm]

I have a better idea!!! Tom will run half his runs in awd, than the second heat we will pull his driveshaft out and make him run.

That will prove that AWD helps throughout the course and not just at the launch.

Why are people making sooo many excuses, Excuses DO NOT exist in this sport!

[SgtRauksauff]

I am old and can't see that well. Don't like come marks on my cars.

Um.....why would there be those kind of marks on your cars? EVOs can be kinda sexy, but not THAT sexy.......

And what does your sight have to do with those marks? Is it true then, that you WILL go blind if you do it enough??

--sarge

[VPT]

That will prove that AWD helps throughout the course and not just at the launch.

Why are people making sooo many excuses, Excuses DO NOT exist in this sport!




Open your eyes! There are excuses flyin everywhere!

[SgtRauksauff]

whats wrong with excuses? Um, I didn't take FTD in my AE86 because some Jacktard in an STi showed up. Darned things have like 3x the horsepower of my car. It's just not fair....

--sarge

[Extremedsm]

Why are people making sooo many excuses, Excuses DO NOT exist in this sport!

No excuses going on here. Just when some clown can't read numbers right in front of his face. I know there is probably 3 people on here that know how much difference there is. The own AWD cars and they are too big of nancys to open their mouths. NOUMEROUS times I have heard from 2 of them at an auto x, I ran such and such time and I did not even studder box launch my car. If there is no difference, why say it?

[Dizmm]

NOUMEROUS times I have heard from 2 of them at an auto x, I ran such and such time and I did not even studder box launch my car. If there is no difference, why say it?

ha, or they were surprised that there is little to null difference.

[VPT]

Like TK said, someone will just launch their car half the runs and than leave like a normal person for the other half and we'll compare times.

[SgtRauksauff]

What's the actual debate here, anyway? Stutter-box launch vs. foot launch?

The way I see it, the stutter-box will make your launch more consistent each time, with the engine r's at the exact same place every time. Hopefully, it gets changed for conditions, since tire rubber heats up, track warms up, some tracks have more grip than others, etc.. A guy who really knows his car, and has done foot-launches a million times in it, will be able to do those adjustments on the fly, to pretty much the same effect. I think a stutter-box is an aid to someone until they get to the level where they can feel that. After that, it's just a nifty toy to make cool noises with.

Now, if the track has long enough sections where there's a lot of shifting, NLTS can have quite an impact too. But since we're just talking the Launch here...

--sarge

[VPT]

We are talking about awd cars having an advantage over single wheel drive cars when there is a dead start or a long strait start at an auto-x.

[SgtRauksauff]

ah. Ok, here's another diatribe then.

My opinion is that it really depends on more than just AWD or FWD or RWD. My 4WD Protege wouldn't have any Launching advantages over my 323 or AE86. In fact, I'd say that my AE86 has the best launching ability of the three cars, followed by the FWD 323, and the 4WD at the bottom. The FWD has the most power (~125) and the 4WD the least (~103) with the AE86 in the middle at ~112.

Every car's different, so you have to play to it's advantages. If you've got LSD's, of course you will be able to launch better than in a car with an open diff. If you've got 3 LSD's, even better. You've got the ability to get more of your total power to the ground, with less slippage, as fast as that power can be made.

I don't think it's so much a 4WD vs FWD question, as it is a question of physics: Power available, Power applied, tire grip, rate of power application.

If your total rate of power application is less than the maximum grip will support, you get a non-slip launch. If your rate of power exceeds the amount of grip your tires will support, you spin, and lose time. If you've got more power available than is supported by the grip, you better keep it within the boundaries (of the traction circle, lol!), whether you've got a one-tire-fire on some $27 13" pizza-cutters, or three LSD's with 285 A6's.

So there.

[VPT]

So how many second advantage does a AWD 3 LSD sticky tire car with a power adder have over a single wheel drive naturally aspirated car with fleet farm tires on it in the first 100 feet?

[Dizmm]

this thread is now stupid!

[VPT]

What thread isn't stupid?

[WhiteEightBall]

^ The ones you guys don't fck up.... and not nessaccarily YOU VPT, but you know what I mean.

[Dizmm]

No its always VPT F'n shit up.

[VPT]

No, I watched TK wreck two HID headlights in a row last night!

[TomKat]

No, I watched TK wreck two HID headlights in a row last night!

Wrecked em? Damn near killed them.

Actually both were working later on in evening.

[VPT]

They fixed themselves after the TK beat down?

[northsydryd]

^lol chris farley

[SgtRauksauff]

So how many second advantage does a AWD 3 LSD sticky tire car with a power adder have over a single wheel drive naturally aspirated car with fleet farm tires on it in the first 100 feet?

How many seconds does a 300hp/3000lb car have over a 130hp 2200lb car?

10lb/hp vs. 17lb/hp. kinda big difference right there. making the "advantage" of lsd/sticky negligible in comparison.

Thread's a little dumb, but it beats staring at a batch file until it completes...

--sarge

[Dizmm]

how about a new tech thread,... weight:power:grip ratio.

[Deadly_Evolution]

http://www.centralcitycu.com/infodesk/loan_calc.html


Lets say you want to buy DontStopMe's Evo for $15000 and you have $4k to throw down after you sell your beater Honda.

with a 36 month loan, with an interest rate of 7% which shouldnt be too hard to find. your monthly loan payment would be about $339.

$340 a month to have a car thats much newer, needs MUCH less, can do just about anyhing including pickin up the kids from school.

When I bought my EVO a year ago I borrowed $14,400 after down payment, 36 month term, payments are $375 a mo. Interest rate is around 6.5% if I recall.

[devlish]

^ ouch. that blows.

once the money for my lexus get here from the kids bank this week or next... ahhh, the sweet smell of no car payments!!

[SgtRauksauff]

when I got my Escort Wagon 11 years ago, I borrowed 4500 after downpayment.

payments were like 120 a month or something like that. I don't remember how long it actually was, I think for years. Insurance was closer to 200. You know it sucks when your insurance is more than your car payment, lol!

--sarge

[SgtRauksauff]

how about a new tech thread,... weight:power:grip ratio.

grip is gonna be tough. you need the coefficient of friction of the rubber compounds used, and of the surface being raced on, and the temperatures of them all, and the elasticity of the rubber, maybe factor in camber, and degrees turned, and it's just too much math.

--sarge

[devlish]

forget the math.
we need to take more consideration on this subject
http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss108/motormouth_2009/bikini2B1.jpg

[SgtRauksauff]

math? wha....? I would like to attempt multiplication with her....

[Dizmm]

grip is gonna be tough. you need the coefficient of friction of the rubber compounds used, and of the surface being raced on, and the temperatures of them all, and the elasticity of the rubber, maybe factor in camber, and degrees turned, and it's just too much math.

--sarge

Easy solution would be some real world testing. Take the same wheels/tires and keep that consistent from car to car. That’s as accurate as you can get.

[Getsideways]

So how many second advantage does a AWD 3 LSD sticky tire car with a power adder have over a single wheel drive naturally aspirated car with fleet farm tires on it in the first 100 feet?

If your trying to be a pax guy race in stock class SM is not the class for you then if your trying to make everything ''equal''

[VPT]

Its not the class's guy, its the COARSE. Even the stock guys have the same disadvantage.

[matt]

forget the math.
we need to take more consideration on this subject

no consideration needed.

[006r]

COURSE.... carry on

[Getsideways]

Its not the class's guy, its the COARSE. Even the stock guys have the same disadvantage.

Thats 2 shawanoo events that have had zero advantage to launching your car i dont see what your point is ,,,
Youve been invited several times to come help us lay out the track but you dont seem to care about that youd rather just bitch about it ,,, what more can we do to help out your civics auto-x times ???
(all typed while laughing hysterically)

[VPT]

Just keep the rolling start. I liked that.

[devlish]

6 it didn't help times much, but it was a nice change anyways.

[WhiteEightBall]

RAPIDSCHICK!!!! Here's your drifting video!

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/RapidsChick-Drift-Action_705018.htm

[devlish]

personally, i'd call it over-correcting. not drifting. but whatever.

[WhiteEightBall]

Here's my sh!tty runs. My camera shut off for some reason right before I started the 1st lap, so it didn't record obviously. I've got laps 2, 3 and 4 for heat 1. I've got heat 2 but those shots are going into an edited video and had odd camera angles.

So here we go.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/USAIR-AutoX-Heat-1-Lap-2_705534.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/USAIR-AutoX-Heat-1-Lap-3_705530.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/USAIR-AutoX-Heat-1-Lap-4_705527.htm

I was just trying to push the car too hard in the wrong spots as you'll hear the tires just grinding away the sidewalls as I'm pulling out of corners.

I know what I did wrong, now anyway. I'll be correcting this at other autocross'.

I got a full lap of Andy and Joel as well.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/USAIR-AutoX-Andys-Subaru_705073.htm[/URL]
[URL]http://videos.streetfire.net/video/KronzTeck-Approved-at-YO_705075.htm (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/USAIR-AutoX-Andys-Subaru_705073.htm)

[TomKat]

RAPIDSCHICK!!!! Here's your drifting video!

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/RapidsChick-Drift-Action_705018.htm


Ha ha. She has to stop listening to Hoot.

[austinj06]

So, was there anymore shawno pics?

[VPT]

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6661/shawano83009008.jpg

[devlish]

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn157/devlish/cwscc%20stuff/shawano1.jpg

[DSM Girl]

That is the best pic ever!!

[devlish]

i was surprised at how clean it turned out from my shitty little handheld camera.

[VPT]

I was gonna say, that mirror is freaking clean yo!

[devlish]

^ i know... it was a quick last minute shot. i'm happy with how it turned out!!! sweeet