evoIII 16g

[smuT]

anyone?

[DontStopMe]

this post makes me ask, whats wrong with the force performance turbo your selling?

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

i may consider buying this turbo, I want to see it first.

[devlish]

i have an EvoIII Big 16G, fully ported, along with an Evo 02 housing, and fully ported 2G manifold tapped for EGT.

[Pointdsm]

Devlish, how did you do your EGT tap? Drill a hole and weld on a bung for the threads?

[devlish]

drilled a hole... and TAPPED it, just like it says. however, yes, you could also drill a hole and weld on a bung.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

i have an EvoIII Big 16G, fully ported, along with an Evo 02 housing, and fully ported 2G manifold tapped for EGT.

r u selling it?

[Pointdsm]

Oh, well if i only drill the hole and tap it, the probe sticks to far into the manifold, just wondering before i do it.

[Pointdsm]

sorry to hijack the thread..

[devlish]

mine didn't stick too far in. mines an autometer. you just have to do it at the right angle. on the SIDE of the manifold, not straight down. do it at the bend as well, and you'll be fine. done it twice, worked great twice. it CAN be done.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

mine didn't stick too far in. mines an autometer. you just have to do it at the right angle. on the SIDE of the manifold, not straight down. do it at the bend as well, and you'll be fine. done it twice, worked great twice. it CAN be done.

make sure u do it on #2 cylinder!

[Pointdsm]

thank you..

[devlish]

mine didn't stick too far in. mines an autometer. you just have to do it at the right angle. on the SIDE of the manifold, not straight down. do it at the bend as well, and you'll be fine. done it twice, worked great twice. it CAN be done.

make sure u do it on #2 cylinder!

i hope your joking... right??

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

mine didn't stick too far in. mines an autometer. you just have to do it at the right angle. on the SIDE of the manifold, not straight down. do it at the bend as well, and you'll be fine. done it twice, worked great twice. it CAN be done.

make sure u do it on #2 cylinder!

i hope your joking... right??

I hope ur joking, seriously, #2 cylinder, read up on it. cylinder #2 is proven to run the hottest.

[EVILUTION]

I wouldn't do it at all as the EGT is half baked at best.

Much better off with a scan tool for knock and an wideband. Thats all you need.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

I wouldn't do it at all as the EGT is half baked at best.

Much better off with a scan tool for knock and an wideband. Thats all you need.

tru that an egt gauge wont do much as by the time u see the temp at 900+ degree's celcius, its too late. But if u keep an eye on it, it could save ya.

[devlish]

then why do the #4's always burn holes in them?? and when i did mine, everywhere i read (dsmtalk, tuners, and vfaq) said #4

as for the EGT, it's useful, but is MOST useful in addition to a wideband. the EGT will tell you if you're running hot or cold, and so will a wideband. but with both, you'll also be able to diagnose better what's going on. becuase if your running rich, but the car is still hot, it could be timing, etc... so together, you'll have the best of BOTH worlds.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

then why do the #4's always burn holes in them?? and when i did mine, everywhere i read (dsmtalk, tuners, and vfaq) said #4

as for the EGT, it's useful, but is MOST useful in addition to a wideband. the EGT will tell you if you're running hot or cold, and so will a wideband. but with both, you'll also be able to diagnose better what's going on. becuase if your running rich, but the car is still hot, it could be timing, etc... so together, you'll have the best of BOTH worlds.

A wideband will not tell u if ur running hot or cold egt's, it will tell u ur air to fuel mixture.

Quote from a "DSM Wiseman on tuners"
Studies show that b/c of the design of the intake manifold and whatnot, cylinder 2 generally runs 50*-150* hotter, with cylinder 1 being 2nd hottest. I'm not sure why companies put the provision on the #1 runner.

Or the entire thread
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213685&highlight=tap+egt

#4 cylinder is the richest running cylinder out of the 4 as the #4 injector recieves the mose fuel pressure hence it runs the richest.

[Pointdsm]

Um, Dizmm, i forget the order right now, but the runner closest to the belts is the usual EGT runner. Its farthest down the fuel rail and is the one that usually runs lean. I've read a bit on it too, guess i'll read some more now.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

well the runner closest to the "belts" would be cylinder 1, which makes more since then #4. If u read that thread there is lots of controversy weather #2 or #1 runs hotter.

[DontStopMe]

I tapped the 02 housing :)

[EVILUTION]

Unless you're logging 4 EGT probes, one in each runner, I can't see EGT being that useful.

In comparison to airflow, a/f ratio, idc, and knock retard...... EGTs are a meaningless number. The sensors are very 'old skool'. Back in the day before widebands could be had at a reasonable price people used EGTs and crossed their fingers. The truth is that the sensors are slow to react, often provide false positives, and lastly are difficult to monitor.

That's why nobody has really bothered to spend much time to put EGT routines into the software (the effort is just simply better spent elsewhere).

[smuT]

the green is fine..i had it in my car for about 12 hours and decided i didnt want it...that and the 750's weren't agreeing with my gas mileage...i wanted something more practical. if you want more details, ask Matt. my priorities are now dsm link, evoIII and possibly 550's or 650's....

im interested in that evoIII from devlish. i do have the o2 housing and 2nd gen ported exhaust manifold though..

[EVILUTION]

I ran 850s and still pulled 30mpg on my DSM. Injector size has nothing to do with mpg. Even for the EVOIII I would keep the 750s. I loved my DSMLink.

[smuT]

850's and 30 mpg? ...when i had the 750's in i was getting about 14....i dont believe this. is the safc part of this problem?

[TSi_II]

I'm probably wrong, but you never know.... But daily driving, 1000cc or 450cc injectors will both flow the same under zero boost, but it's when you are under boost, raising the amount of air and having to keep the correct AFR is when they need to flow the shit tons of fuel and murder your MPG. Fuel pressure raises at a 1:1 ratio with every PSI of boost, but base fuel psi will be the same no matter your injectors. So your 750's only make the difference when they are picking up the slack from the point after your stock 450's reached 100% duty cycle, nothing else. (If I'm wrong just delete this post and put the right explination in here.)

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

I'm probably wrong, but you never know.... But daily driving, 1000cc or 450cc injectors will both flow the same under zero boost, but it's when you are under boost, raising the amount of air and having to keep the correct AFR is when they need to flow the shit tons of fuel and murder your MPG. Fuel pressure raises at a 1:1 ratio with every PSI of boost, but base fuel psi will be the same no matter your injectors. So your 750's only make the difference when they are picking up the slack from the point after your stock 450's reached 100% duty cycle, nothing else. (If I'm wrong just delete this post and put the right explination in here.)

yup, if tuned correctly, you will get same gas milage on 1000cc injectors vs 550cc on the same setup. Most likely you are haveing a tuning problem. maybe pickup a wideband and that will tell you for sure.

[TomKat]

I ran 850s and still pulled 30mpg on my DSM. Injector size has nothing to do with mpg. Even for the EVOIII I would keep the 750s. I loved my DSMLink.

30 mpg. :lol: Wow can we say BULLSHIT!!!

[EVILUTION]

Not bullshit at all. I took my DSM with 850s and a spool to Miami and back. At cruise we got 30mpg. Its the same as a non turbo when not in the boost.

If you are getting that shitty of gas mileage then you have a REALLY lousy tune or you are driving around with the parking brake on!

[TomKat]

Bullshit!

[smuT]

i dont have a parking brake

[EVILUTION]

LOL..... you just wish Zoey could get that!

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

I seen about 27ish highway with my spyder.

[Pointdsm]

I get about 22mpg on the highway with my 550's, and a quick crappy tune.

[VPT]

I get 45mpg with my car.

[TomKat]

LOL..... you just wish Zoey could get that!


Zoey can do better than that. I actually calculate my mileage and have the logbooks to prove it.

AWD = Bad gas mileage.

[turbo chick]

My red car gets 22.......with the previous 550s and with the current 850s.

[TomKat]

22 mpg. Now there's a reasonable #.

[devlish]

my AWD averaged about 18 on the hwy. 20 w/ a tailwind

[EVILUTION]

Zoey can do better than that. I actually calculate my mileage and have the logbooks to prove it. (AWD = Bad gas mileage.

BULLSHIT!!!

[VPT]

Zoey can do better than that. I actually calculate my mileage and have the logbooks to prove it. (AWD = Bad gas mileage.

BULLSHIT!!!


its true, you think its easy for a motor to turn an extra 400 pounds of crap.

[EVILUTION]

The bullcrap was aimed at TC's claim that Zoey gets 30mpg, but your statement is false as well. There isn't an additional 400 lbs of crap to turn. Most of the spinning stuff has to spin either way. The difference in minimal.

I get 20mpg in my heavy ass AWD jeep with V8! If these folks can't get nearly 30 in a little 4 banger then their tune sucks!

FWIW - I found one of GRUMP's logs of mileage and MPG.

Average speed 82mph distance travelled was 326 miles and mpg was 28. That was with a forced performance turbo, 850cc injectors, and a SPOOL!

[devlish]

i believe that. my laser is NOT AWD, but i get 30ish+ on the hwy consistantly.

[DontStopMe]

My beater AWD = 25MPG highway at best. FWD=30-32 highway. the worst is the city, AWD city= about 19-20mpg....even delivering pizzas with the FWD I still got 24-25 in the city.

[turbo chick]

The bullcrap was aimed at TC's claim that Zoey gets 30mpg,

I didn't say anything about Zoey.......that was all TomKat himself.

[VPT]

There isn't an additional 400 lbs of crap to turn. Most of the spinning stuff has to spin either way. The difference in minimal.


Drive shaft(s) = 40 pounds

rear end gearing, spiders, pinion = 40 pounds

rear axles, hubs = 30 pounds

transfer case gearing = 30 pounds

extra gearing in the tranny itself to turn the transfer case = 25 pounds

and thats just centrifugal weight, Not even looking at dead weight of rear end cage, subframes, ect.

[VPT]

I get 20mpg in my heavy ass AWD jeep with V8! If these folks can't get nearly 30 in a little 4 banger then their tune sucks!

FWIW - I found one of GRUMP's logs of mileage and MPG.

Average speed 82mph distance travelled was 326 miles and mpg was 28. That was with a forced performance turbo, 850cc injectors, and a SPOOL!


Do you know how to calculate gas milage for sure? Something doesn't add up. Unless you are running your cars on the very edge of detonation which is no good for the pistons at all. What were your wideband numbers when on cruise?

[EVILUTION]

14:1 with 40* timing at cruise. I also sprayed a 50/50 mix of water/alchy when in boosting. The EVO didn't quite get 30mpg but thats because there's no cruise and it boosts all the time. Now that its back to stock the mileage actually dropped. The little exhaust and cat tend to fuck shit up.

BTW you still have a long way to go to reach 400LBS.

[devlish]

he can't add. he only got to 165lbs before it got confusing.

[TSi_II]

Well as for DSM's.... "Curb Weight: 1,250 - 1,425 kg (2,756 - 3,142 lbs)" That's from non-turbo to TSI AWD and it's a 386 pound difference, which is pretty close to 400 pounds if you ask me. I'm sure that also factors in the addition of the turbo and the supporting things for it, all the power windows, locks, seats, moonroof, all the leather and whatever else. But even so, I'm sure a lot of that is in the drivetrain.

[EVILUTION]

Its true, you think its easy for a motor to turn an extra 400 pounds of crap.

His quote was the motor had to TURN an extra 400lbs of crap. That is incorrect. Dead weight and rotating mass are two different things. Dead weight as very little to do with gas mileage.

If Tom and I hopped in your car do you think you would lose 10mpg?

[devlish]

just noticed your signature "When driving in a straight line ... I fall asleep!" i assume that's cuz it's boring, not becuase your getting REALLY old, right?? hahaha, j/k!!! i had to

anyways, yes, rotating mass & still mass are way different. if you actually had to turn an extra 400lbs, gas mileage would go down. but the FWD car and AWD cars both have tires, brakes, rims, etc... so adding in the 165lbs VPT speaks of probably does make a difference. but again, that's a far cry from 400lbs.

[VPT]

Wow you guys are realy stuck on that 400 lbs huh? That was a figure of speach, a random number just throwen out there.

[VPT]

14:1 with 40* timing at cruise. I also sprayed a 50/50 mix of water/alchy when in boosting. The EVO didn't quite get 30mpg but thats because there's no cruise and it boosts all the time. Now that its back to stock the mileage actually dropped. The little exhaust and cat tend to fuck shit up.

BTW you still have a long way to go to reach 400LBS.


40* of timing at cruise huh? Little much don't you think? Coinsidering most cars run around 25 - 30 at cruise.

30mpg with water injection huh? Now the truth comes out. Your extra milage was because of the water! Don't give me any crap about how water doesn't help nothing because I know for a fact everything that water injection does and one is better gas milage.

[VPT]

Its true, you think its easy for a motor to turn an extra 400 pounds of crap.

His quote was the motor had to TURN an extra 400lbs of crap. That is incorrect. Dead weight and rotating mass are two different things. Dead weight as very little to do with gas mileage.

If Tom and I hopped in your car do you think you would lose 10mpg?

Tell semi drivers that dead weight doesn't effect gas milage.

For some reason I notice a drop in gas milage in the truck when I have a car on the trailer.

Tom did you ever notice a drop in gas milage from having a empty trailer to having a car on the trailer?

Not only turning an extra 165 pounds of centifugal weight but than there is friction in the gearing, seals, bearings, oil, ect.

No mater what you say evil anyone with any comon sense will know that an AWD car will never never get the same milage as a 2wd car.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

No mater what you say evil anyone with any comon sense will know that an AWD car will never never get the same milage as a 2wd car.

So a stock AWD DSM wont get as good of gas milage as a ZO6???

Whats ur ZO6 get tom, the sticker on a stock TSI AWD is 27 HWY.

[DontStopMe]

HAHAHA! my RWD camaro= 14MPG Highway! But im sure VPT means within the same body style of car. A Z06 or old ass camaro is not really a fair comparison at all. We are arguing what is common sense...more weight=worse gas mileage...case closed!

[VPT]

No mater what you say evil anyone with any comon sense will know that an AWD car will never never get the same milage as a 2wd car.

So a stock AWD DSM wont get as good of gas milage as a ZO6???

Whats ur ZO6 get tom, the sticker on a stock TSI AWD is 27 HWY.


Your funny.

[TomKat]

Weight does effect MPG. My truck will get a little bit better MPG with the trailer empty, but I think the wind drag is the biggest MPG robber with my setup.

I think a Z06 will do better highway MPG than an AWD DSM. Now also consider that a stock 02'-05' Z06 has roughly double the hp as a stock AWD DSM and is way faster.

Can't someone look up the EPA mileage ratings of the two cars?

[devlish]

Tell semi drivers that dead weight doesn't effect gas milage..we started off talking about 400lbs here, not 40tons. when you drive your pickup do you notice *much* of a MPG difference when there's just you in the truck vs when there are you and 2 friends?? there may be a difference, but maybe only 1-2mpg. now add a 2000lb+ car, sure, it will make a difference. but that's 1600lbs more. i bet you barely notice the mpg difference with only the extra weight of 2 friends (400lbs total maybe)

either way, i could care less. it won't stop me from driving my cars. i just will not own and SUV. i just like to argue with you fucks.

i know it's old, but so true!!!
http://www.clint.ca/argue/argue.jpg

[EVILUTION]

Wow you guys are realy stuck on that 400 lbs huh? That was a figure of speach, a random number just throwen out there.

I guess it was because you went from 400lbs of rotating mass to 165lbs (which was also a made up number) then you tossed in dead weight and now you are comparing the addition of an AWD system to a loaded semi or pickup truck with a car on the back. That is a far cry from the minimal parasitic loss caused by an AWD system.

Make up all the random numbers you want but the truth is that my 98 GSX with SPOOL and a shit ton of mods easily tugged 30mpg on the highway and that was without water injection. I only used the injection system as a chemical intercooler / octane booster while boosting.

[TomKat]

AWD's do have a considerably greater amount of parasitic loss. Plus extra weight. I'd believe you may have gotten 30 mpg once in Grumpy. I'd bet you had a nice tailwind and were going downhill. On a two way average. No way.

[VPT]

Wow you guys are realy stuck on that 400 lbs huh? That was a figure of speach, a random number just throwen out there.

I guess it was because you went from 400lbs of rotating mass to 165lbs (which was also a made up number) then you tossed in dead weight and now you are comparing the addition of an AWD system to a loaded semi or pickup truck with a car on the back. That is a far cry from the minimal parasitic loss caused by an AWD system.

Make up all the random numbers you want but the truth is that my 98 GSX with SPOOL and a shit ton of mods easily tugged 30mpg on the highway and that was without water injection. I only used the injection system as a chemical intercooler / octane booster while boosting.


Ok.... You pay the gas and we will take my truck strait south all highway miles with the cruise set at 70 all the way. When we run out of gas we will record the milage, fill up the tank lock the 4wd in and drive back same way same speed. We than can record the milage when we run out of gas about 100 miles short of home and see how much more gas it takes to run a awd vehicle compared to a 2wd vehicle.

[VPT]

Tell semi drivers that dead weight doesn't effect gas milage..we started off talking about 400lbs here, not 40tons. when you drive your pickup do you notice *much* of a MPG difference when there's just you in the truck vs when there are you and 2 friends?? there may be a difference, but maybe only 1-2mpg. now add a 2000lb+ car, sure, it will make a difference. but that's 1600lbs more. i bet you barely notice the mpg difference with only the extra weight of 2 friends (400lbs total maybe)


I do notice a diffrence when I have people in the honda. But that is dead weight guy, we are talking about rotational weight which is on average 10 dead pounds = 1 centrifugal pound.

[EVILUTION]

AWD's do have a considerably greater amount of parasitic loss. Plus extra weight.

If that is true, just imagine how much better I could get with a fwd probably close to 40mpg.

I'd believe you may have gotten 30 mpg

Thanks I knew you would see the light.

VPT your 4x4 truck is completely different than a light little sports car.

[TomKat]

AWD's do have a considerably greater amount of parasitic loss. Plus extra weight.

If that is true, just imagine how much better I could get with a fwd probably close to 40mpg.

VPT your 4x4 truck is completely different than a light little sports car.

If you EVO was just FWD then you'd probably get your 30 mpg. What are the FWD Lancers rated at?

The truck isn't that different than your not so light EVO. VPT's mileage comparison doesn't factor in the extra weight of the four wheel drive. My K5 Blazer was full time four wheel drive. I remember they sold kits to convert it to lock out hubs so you could run it in two wheel drive. About a 30% increase in mileage was seen after the lock out hubs were installed.

[SgtRauksauff]

Just some of my numbers for the hell of it:

I've done 35mpg with my wagon, when I was being "nice" and breaking in the clutch. It had its timing retarded by 10? from stock, just to help it idle, because of an unknown vacuum leak in the BOV. Then, I got 7mpg when spending a day at shawano. WOT does things to the contents of your fuel tank. Daily driving in my normal manner puts me at around 26-28.

Bone stock Escort GT gets around 27-29 normally, 32 when on long trips with overinflated tires.

My hauler van gets 11.5 mpg whether empty or hauling a car on a trailer. Or like 0mi / 15gal when people use it to stay warm at a rallycross.

My Volvo gets between 18 and 22 depending on where I buy the gas.

I haven't paid attention enough in the Toyota yet.

I used to get around 104 miles per 2.2 gallon tank on my '81 suzuki 450, back when I was 19 and only weighed about 170.

I've talked to some guys running MegaSquirt on boosted ford 1.9L engines getting 43mpg.

With well-tuned aftermarket fuel control, you can seriously get better mileage than normal. I don't think that 30mpg is really that incredible of a claim. Stock ECU's tend to run pig rich, just so they don't start melting things when car-unenthusiast Joe Schmoe rods it around. When you start tuning engines with adjustable cam gears, different intake and exhaust flow from stock, and programmable timing/fuel control, you get a completely different engine performance. REmember "RV" cams? same old V8, but with only a different cam in it, you get a whole lot more low-end torque, and way better mileage at cruising speed. Perfect for getting that extra-heavy mobile beer bong going from the stoplights, and saving on gas money so you can pour down the brew on the cross-country trips......



--sarge

[smuT]

i know this is an old thread...but i'm still looking...now that i'm coming back to town after a few months, maybe something changed and someone has one..

anyone?

[Pointdsm]

I'm actually looking for one too, but not for my car.

[DontStopMe]

I'm actually looking for one too, but not for my car. you still have a small 16g?

[Pointdsm]

I sold my old one, it wasn't worth it, 3 broken studs in the housing and an air leak somewhere. Didn't blow smoke though. I have a s16g, but am trying to find stash a 14b or 16g for his car.

[devlish]

i might have an EVO3 B16g for sale over winter... if i decide to part my car out. if you haven't found anythng by January... ask me