View Full Version : Just got in a new sheet metal break in.
Just got a new 40" sheet metal break in the shop. Can bend 16 gauge steel ( a bit thicker with smaller peices) and 14 gauge aluminum(also a bit thicker with smaller peices). Nice clean bends, lots of possibilities.
devlish
12-03-2006, 07:32 PM
build me a sheet metal intake, make lots them them... and i'll make you lots of $$ that way.
DontStopMe
12-03-2006, 08:18 PM
build me a sheet metal intake, make lots them them... and i'll make you lots of $$ that way.
2nd that. If you could make one reasonably priced for the dsm's, I'd be down.
Pointdsm
12-03-2006, 11:19 PM
3rd that..
talon_54981
12-04-2006, 12:15 AM
4th that! DSM Intake Manifolds for 1st and 2nd gens. Let us know if you would be interested in making them. Thanks
The sheet metal intakes are in the works. We are working on sorcing the right materials and tooling for them now. Shouldn't be long.
devlish
12-04-2006, 08:45 AM
who's "we" ??
who's "we" ??
VPT and bait, can't you read?
Pointdsm
12-04-2006, 07:51 PM
Count me out, a company just did a test on SMIC's along with the stock manifolds on DSM's, the stock 1g manifold did very well, especially in the rpm range i'm in, so i'll just keep mine.
TomKat
12-04-2006, 08:19 PM
Golly. A factory part that works good. Who'd a thunk it. :o
Pointdsm
12-04-2006, 08:36 PM
Well, to b e honest the 1g manifold worked best when it was honed out, and the SMIM's worked really good in the high rpms.
devlish
12-04-2006, 10:24 PM
who's "we" ??
VPT and bait, can't you read?
freakin nice answer dude!!
and i meant intake for the Omni... not the DSM
Count me out, a company just did a test on SMIC's along with the stock manifolds on DSM's, the stock 1g manifold did very well, especially in the rpm range i'm in, so i'll just keep mine.
What company was that? Did they have any suporting mods to take advantage of the intake or just slapped it on a stock car? Was it a good intake or just some cheap crap? Lots of factors to look at here like was it back to back tests or tests on diffrent days? Was there a temp or humidity change between the tests?
You state DSM's, SMIC's, and stock manifold's all plurl so was it multiple tests with multiple cars with multiple manifolds and mutiple sheet metal intakes?
who's "we" ??
VPT and bait, can't you read?
freakin nice answer dude!!
and i meant intake for the Omni... not the DSM
May be able to help you out if you can get that stock mani off for me sometime this winter or when your ready.
devlish
12-05-2006, 09:30 AM
i picked up a bunch of extra stuff, i think i have an intake in there. will try to get something to you soon to check out at least and price out. i'm serious when i say i might be able to sell a few. there is a need for something like that and these people love them!
I can send a prototype to a friend in Texas that specializes in this turbododge stuff for her to run on the dyno and flowbench. i'll call her about it today.
i'lll keep you posted.
Dizmm, (Old Account)
12-05-2006, 10:43 AM
SMIM for an omni, what the hell is next, u wanna make one for my truck??? stop spending soo much time on that omni, get it running and drive it, or sell it.
the 1g DSM manifolds flow good for street use stuff, but in the 7+k rpms, a SMIM will halp out a lot.
devlish
12-05-2006, 11:16 AM
the crazy people that run these little cars into the 10's, 11's and even the 12's are all about the SMIM for their cars... they drool when someone starts a new project like that.
Pointdsm
12-05-2006, 01:26 PM
I cannot remember the company that did it, it was a group of individuals each with different SMIM's. The tests were all done on the same day, on the same car with the same mods. The purpose was not to tune for each manifold, in order to show the differences. If you tune for each manifold, they will all look good. Agreed the SMIM's will perform better at high rpm's, as they did. Seach on Tuners, the thread is there.
Dizmm, (Old Account)
12-05-2006, 01:39 PM
http://www.dsmsupport.com/flowchart.html
devlish
12-05-2006, 07:35 PM
looks like overall the stock 1g was about 2nd best, while the FRH was by far the lowest... ouch.
all that cash and it don't flow worth a darn. probably hurts perf a little bit.
by the way... where is VPT these days?
Dizmm, (Old Account)
12-06-2006, 09:12 AM
looks like overall the stock 1g was about 2nd best, while the FRH was by far the lowest... ouch.
all that cash and it don't flow worth a darn. probably hurts perf a little bit.
by the way... where is VPT these days?
Yeah, i dont know how they tested that FRH. I see a lot of the guys running into the 11's or so using the FRH. Maybe they tested that incorrectly or something. who knows...
devlish
12-06-2006, 10:17 AM
or, maybe it's just crap!! j/k
a friend of mine knows the proprietor of FRH. i was at the DSM Shootout with them both the year FRH made his debut with his first prototype race head on his car. he ran low 11's i think, in a completely stock looking 2G, it was pretty cool.
If you tune for each manifold, they will all look good.
...
Pointdsm
12-06-2006, 12:36 PM
I ment, having a highly modded car, and being able to use the SMIM to its fullest, yet the 1g will then suffer, kinda like that.
TSi_II
12-06-2006, 06:49 PM
If you plan on spending a lot of time in the red of the tach, it would probably be a good idea. The 1st gen they tested seemed to fall on it's face above 6,500.
Dizmm, (Old Account)
12-06-2006, 08:26 PM
if your gonna be that high of rpm's better have lots of money stuck into the tranny and your valvetrain.
TSi_II
12-06-2006, 09:06 PM
Very true... Hell if Shep can shift at 12k, why can't I??? lol
Guess we'll just have to see what happens when we put one on. :twisted:
TSi_II
12-07-2006, 08:42 AM
Tell ya what, I'll let you sponsor my car and I'll have the first free proto-type..... :lol:
devlish
12-07-2006, 09:28 AM
good luck with that man...
Tell ya what, I'll let you sponsor my car and I'll have the first free proto-type..... :lol:
the first two are already spoken for.
devlish
12-07-2006, 09:55 AM
reeeeaaaaalllllyyy?? cool.
TSi_II
12-07-2006, 10:31 AM
Fine I'll just pay for one and be on my way. Make sure they fit a 2g.
Dizmm, (Old Account)
12-07-2006, 10:45 AM
i got a few intake manifolds for sale. couple stock 1g's and 2g's, and a really nice FHR intake with a 70mm accufab throttle body.
only problem with going with a bigger intake manifold, you need to open up the ports on the intake side of the head otherwise you will only make things worse.
TSi_II
12-07-2006, 11:16 AM
Modding my car will do more than make things worse right now.. Haha. Yeah maybe after I fix the Talon's issues I'll look into those sorts of things, actually long after... I'm leaving for 3 months this summer so my car will be garaged and not touched for the time, but maybe I'll be able to save up some more money in that time.
i got a few intake manifolds for sale. couple stock 1g's and 2g's, and a really nice FHR intake with a 70mm accufab throttle body.
only problem with going with a bigger intake manifold, you need to open up the ports on the intake side of the head otherwise you will only make things worse.
there you go again trying to sell your shit in someone elses thread.
Don't have to open up the ports in the mani fits the head right.
Dizmm, (Old Account)
12-07-2006, 03:04 PM
i got a few intake manifolds for sale. couple stock 1g's and 2g's, and a really nice FHR intake with a 70mm accufab throttle body.
only problem with going with a bigger intake manifold, you need to open up the ports on the intake side of the head otherwise you will only make things worse.
there you go again trying to sell your shit in someone elses thread.
Don't have to open up the ports in the mani fits the head right.
ha, sorry, dont buy my intakes unless VPT is out.
most aftermarket intake manifolds are made to match the ports of a 1g head. If your not making the runners larger, whats the point of upgrading the SMIM then?
Pointdsm
12-07-2006, 03:43 PM
Quick question i have...
What is extrude honing(or however it is spelled)?? Is this something somebody can do, or can you VPT do it?
Dizmm, (Old Account)
12-07-2006, 04:08 PM
what are you honing?
i got a few intake manifolds for sale. couple stock 1g's and 2g's, and a really nice FHR intake with a 70mm accufab throttle body.
only problem with going with a bigger intake manifold, you need to open up the ports on the intake side of the head otherwise you will only make things worse.
there you go again trying to sell your shit in someone elses thread.
Don't have to open up the ports in the mani fits the head right.
ha, sorry, dont buy my intakes unless VPT is out.
most aftermarket intake manifolds are made to match the ports of a 1g head. If your not making the runners larger, whats the point of upgrading the SMIM then?
its about velosity not size. if you were to completely pull your intake valves out and combine there sizes what would it be, 1 3/4? Now put 2 valve stems in the way and take that size down even more. Point is if the runners are to big you lose your velosity and lose all your low and mid range power hence the hp chart you posted earlier.
Quick question i have...
What is extrude honing(or however it is spelled)?? Is this something somebody can do, or can you VPT do it?
extrude honing just removes casting marks and smooths the runners and plenum. I can't do that. as far as stock mani porting and honing I can cut the plenum apart and port/hone the runners and plenum and weld it back together.
Pointdsm
12-07-2006, 04:46 PM
I dunno, i'm thinking of it...i need to get everything else done though first.
Dizmm, (Old Account)
12-07-2006, 05:06 PM
its about velosity not size. if you were to completely pull your intake valves out and combine there sizes what would it be, 1 3/4? Now put 2 valve stems in the way and take that size down even more. Point is if the runners are to big you lose your velosity and lose all your low and mid range power hence the hp chart you posted earlier.
that is in the cylinder head, but in the intake, if the runners are not bigger, are you really going to see a big difference in power by going to a different design in the intake. The stock intake manifolds on a DSM are not that bad. You should get something to measue the flow of each intake and truly see what intake flows better.
DontStopMe
12-07-2006, 06:38 PM
Either way, it makes no sense to have smaller ports on the head side. The intake manifold should be the same size to match the head. If not the same size, the intake manifold ports are better off being a bit smaller than bigger(compared to the head port size).
its about velosity not size. if you were to completely pull your intake valves out and combine there sizes what would it be, 1 3/4? Now put 2 valve stems in the way and take that size down even more. Point is if the runners are to big you lose your velosity and lose all your low and mid range power hence the hp chart you posted earlier.
that is in the cylinder head, but in the intake, if the runners are not bigger, are you really going to see a big difference in power by going to a different design in the intake. The stock intake manifolds on a DSM are not that bad. You should get something to measue the flow of each intake and truly see what intake flows better.
Cylinder head or not it is still part of the intake flow is it not? The runners will be matched to the head.
Two intakes with the exact same runner size can flow totaly diffrent with diffrent runner lengths and plenum size and design.
A flow bench can be used to measure flow of constant velosity but any serious head porter or intake builder will tell you that a flow bench is not always right. A motor does not have a constant flow of velosity. The valves closing and opening create a pulse (harmonics if you will) in the intake and runners. By lengthening or shortening the runners and using diffrent plenum sizes and designs you can actually get more flow out of a smaller runner with a higher rate of velosity by 'tunning' the intake to the pulse rate of the valves.
Every car has a power band, some are very noticeable. The power band you feel is when the pulse (harmonics) are matched to the runner length and plenum design. With a bigger runner intake like most SMIM's there is less velosity in the runner which in turn takes a higher rpm to move more air to get into the power band hence why most SMIM's start getting there power up higher in the rpms.
Now back to the flow bench. A flow bench will tell you what intake flows better with just a constant velosity of air moving threw it. But now you should be able to see that those numbers can be totaly diffrent when the intake is actualy on the car. So in the end the only real way to test a intake is with a dyno.
With all that said, we will have a number of diffrent intakes to choose from. We will have diffrent intakes for first gens with the bigger head ports and diffrent intakes for the second gens to match the smaller head ports. Also we have other options like nitrous bungs, stacks, ect. Intakes can also be ordered customized like say you wanted a extended throttle body neck, or you wanted a piston welded to the top of your intake for some reason, it can be done.
devlish
12-07-2006, 09:10 PM
...or you wanted a piston welded to the top of your intake for some reason, it can be done. i'll take one of those please!!! can i be first on the list for that??
as VPT described how a flow bench will only give you flow numbers, but not real life numbers... that could be why the FRH did badly on the dyno. maybe it flowed a supid high amount of air... but once it was on the car, it wasn't helping any.
Extremedsm
12-07-2006, 10:49 PM
I want one made out of beer cans.....................
TSi_II
12-07-2006, 10:54 PM
Light weight.... How many do you think that'd take, let's get drinkin.
I want one made out of beer cans.....................
Sure if you only run like 1/2 pound of boost. Now if you used those little kegs thats a diffrent story.
adamvann3
12-08-2006, 04:33 PM
use light beer to save on weight
What happened to ErvMotor Sports?
devlish
12-13-2006, 09:30 AM
Big Erv of Big Erv Motorsports & Paint?? he's alive and kicking... but living more of a home life now with the new woman
Good for him. I just have not heard much of him lately.
New WOMAN?!?!?!?
I think they've been together for about 8 months or even more now.
devlish
12-13-2006, 11:35 AM
something like that... he stopped in at my shop the otherday for abit just to chat after work. all is well with him, he's adjusting to having some kids running around the house now too
TomKat
12-13-2006, 08:44 PM
What happened to ErvMotor Sports?
He came to Taco Tuesday this week.
EVILUTION
12-13-2006, 09:50 PM
Since there's nothing to computers I'm surprised that VPT hasn't downloaded some CAD software specific to gas dynamics and tested various designs. Its as easy as following a map.
http://www.thedrunken.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=18930
Almost all major SMIM builders use software to design the manifolds. The problem is not - knowing what works when - but rather what parts work best together. Putting a SMIM on a DSM with small turbo and stock cams isn't going to do anything but take low end power away from you.
Most modern cars probably won't even benefit from them. The EVO for example already has 5" less of intake manifold runner than the DSM had. Normally there are 99 other bottlenecks that you need to worry about first before you even consider a SMIM.
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