Just watch

[helby]

....

[VPT]

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2951/adolfhitleriizo1.jpg

[ZXTUNER]

^^ +1

[helby]

....

[fordssuck]

I still cant find a candidate that is completely against illegal's thats a dem. after bush i hate rep.

[helby]

....

[Pointdsm]

To say that you hate all Republicans because of Bush is extremely ingnorant and IMO ridiculous. Do i agree with bush, no, i do on many of his ideas and decisions, but not all. The policy on immigration isn't a party debate, but more of a moral debate in my mind.

[fordssuck]

I have no problems with legal's. I just think its bullshit that we station gaurds at the borders just to stand there, an illegal could walk over the border right pass them and our gaurds cant stop them.... I just want a candidate that will stop illegal immigration to better insure my/my kids generation.

[Pointdsm]

Your kids..... :shock: :shock: :shock: .

[turbo chick]

I think that YOU will need more than a presidential candidate to help YOUR kids!

[helby]

....

[austinj06]

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2951/adolfhitleriizo1.jpg

^^^+5

[austinj06]

I think that YOU will need more than a presidential candidate to help YOUR kids!

lol....+10!

there should be an application process that you have to go through in order to have kids in my opinion...

[Pointdsm]

Voting republican..specially for mccain..is stupid in this election.

Voting Democratic, especially for Clinton, is insane in this election. You think Obama is better than Mccain....ok, I think the opposite.

[helby]

....

[SPSRA]

Every problem that this country faces can be directly traced back to one root.

WALMART :lol: :lol: :lol:

I know I don't make sense to most people, but I don't really care.

[fordssuck]

Whatever, Bush really fucked this country up. Anyone have 9,000,000,000,000 doolars to pay of the countries debt?

[TSi_II]

If the country valued my opinion and it counted, I would vote for Obama... As I see it, the republicans are a bunch of war mongers and I don't trust Clinton... The first Clinton did a good job cleaning up after Bush Sr., but I don't know if this Clinton would be up to the task that this fuckhead left us in.

I'm no politition and basically couldn't give a shit less about it all, so I'll side with SPSRA and say it's all Wal*Mart's fault.

[VPT]

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4629/0301bushchokespretzellzb6.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2439/09nov28joyyu1.jpg

[VPT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWWOwYEs6U

[6speed-Kate]

I completely agree with helby. In this election people need to look at how far under this contry has gone in the past 8 years and not look at race, sex, or anything else. Yeah it would be cool to have a woman president but we would be ignorant to vote only based on that. This country needs a change. We need hope. Obama is the man for the job. We need out of Iraq and to worry about things at home, like healthcare, education, and the lack of trust in our government.

[VPT]

Holy fuck guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8PvLvb3Xk0&NR=1

[VPT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-8gIpjhf1I&feature=related

[VPT]

Just love that sound of a V8!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a6loTSxJJo

[helby]

Took my son to see obama last night in greenbay...fucking a he is the man. It was awesome.

[Posihead]

Pointdsm, 1,399 useless posts and counting :lol:

Hey if Clinton wins, Bill will be The "FIRST MAN"!!! :wink:

[VPT]

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=1295942376&vw=g&b=0&pos=9&p=pocket+bike&fr=yfp-t-501

[Pointdsm]

Pointdsm, 1,399 useless posts and counting :lol:

Hey if Clinton wins, Bill will be The "FIRST MAN"!!! :wink:

What do you mean? Just because i'm not a bandwagon rider, and DO NOT agree with Obama, means what i say is useless...my ass! I do not like Mccain very much, never have, there has always been better.

[VPT]

Kick ass gauges:

http://www.aeroforcetech.com/index.html

[Greg86z28]

I still feel we should not sit and play defense. We are going to get attacked again, no matter how well we defend ourselves. We might as well try and seek out those who attempt to attack us than do nothing. That's my opinion. *shrug*

[Greg86z28]

The thing I hate the most about democrats (or at least the ones down here) is that they are obsessive with asking me if I'm voting or who I'm voting for. And the other thing that pisses me off is all these college kids who look for hand me outs. They vote for who ever is going to give them the most. Yeah that's a great reason to vote. That's why I can't stand 95% of college kids and politics. It's pathetic.

[helby]

....

[VPT]

Who was bush wanting to go to war with now? Something about nuclear stuff and not korea.

[helby]

....

[VPT]

So whats going on with that? Are we at war with them yet?

[Greg86z28]

So whats going on with that? Are we at war with them yet?

No. But they are a threatening country with a nuclear program.

[VPT]

Yah we are all fucked.

[helby]

...

[Greg86z28]

Yah we are all fucked.

Pretty much. It's loose loose. No matter what the president now or our future president does, someone's always bitching because "they are right". Oh well. What can you do? *shrug* Keep working hard and make a living.

[TSi_II]

At least no one is polluting our forum with that Ron Paul bullshit. If you are going to vote, at least vote for someone who can win. You might as well sit at home or be at work if you're going to vote for a third party or someone who will drop out after a week. To each his own though.

[helby]

....

[VPT]

This country is so FUCKED!

[helby]

...

[VPT]

Well bush is still fucking everything up BAD! And neither presidential candidate isn't going to help, they both have bad bad points about them. I'm not going to get into it because like I said many many many many many times before, its is all useless arguing about something that I can't control so its not worth the time and effort from me.

My 1 vote won't help anything. This country doesn't care who runs our country so fuck it, I don't care either. I'll just sit back and watch the shit hit the fan.

[SPSRA]

I'll tell you what the problem is....



sorry, I just couldn't resist.

[helby]

...

[ZXTUNER]

i dont vote theres noone worth voting for i dont like any of the but osama NO

[Posihead]

I was bored so I made this picture for everyone to enjoy! :lol:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/posihead/gutentagducrazybitch.jpg

[EVILUTION]

I love how people are so easily influenced by propaganda.

I have sales people come present products to me on a monthly basis. Each and every time they sell their product like its gods gift to the world. I can do everything we want it to and then some. These motivational speakers can really get you charged up but the sad truth is most products are a fucking piece of shit. Its suited to a very narrow range of customers and doesn't scale well. These candidates are just like those sales guys. This country is full of suckers.

Listening to the things they say at the rally may make you feel warm and fuzzy but you are much better off researching how they voted on issues in the past.

I'm not sure why you are saying Bush brought this country down. The president is simply a mother fucking puppet. The only power he has over congress is the veto. Congress voted the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq into law. I guess liberals don't understand the strategy of defeating terrorism by changing the totalitarian governments that support it. They don't get the concept that freedom reduces frustration, which in turn reduces the ability of terrorist groups to recruit. There's way to much surface patriotism in this country.

[helby]

....

[TomKat]

Nice post Evil.

I get a kick how people blame Bush for everything. Every time they bad mouth him it just makes them look bad. If's he is so much of so called idiot then how did he accomplish so much (bad) stuff. Looks like he can "get R done" all right.

Other countries don't like us. Well yeah we are economically strong - that brings a lot of hatred directed towards us. You'll have that. In general poor people hate rich people.

American people deserve better than what we have now. ?? Huh - we have it pretty damn good here. I think we should concentrate on helping other countries so that they can have it as good as we do. Share the wealth.

[EVILUTION]

Blaming Bush for everything only diverts attention from the real problem and hurts the cause. Both Democrats and Republicans have sold the American people out by consistently getting us into war over the past 75 years. Both have sent our money and weapons of death all around the world. Odds are its going to go on for another 75 years.

The kind of thinking that suggests if we get rid of Bush, we get rid of the problem only gives power to equally dangerous people.

Bring the troops home. Bring the money home. Close overseas bases. Stop acting like the Roman Empire of the modern world. Start concentrating on defending only American soil....bla bla bla. That sounds sweet but unless you pull out of NATO and the UN it isn't going to happen. Brutal as it may sound our support of Israel is a major root cause of our middle east problems. But blame it all on Bush if you want. I agree he is a tool but he isn't the root cause. Hell the majority of Americans support the idea of a revenge-based war and that too is a problem.

Then theres the flip side that people like to neglect. How many countries have been changed for the better by the War on Terror? Afghanistan has become a democracy in which women vote and hold positions of power, and has even sent female athletes to the Olympics for the first time in history. The liberation of Iraq led to the first truly free democratic elections in that country, which many naysayers swore would never happen. Eight million Iraqis defied the death threats of terrorists to cast their votes. Our troops aren't over the killing and only killing. Think about that. If you want to call Bush a warmonger you might as well call him a liberator as well.

[VPT]

WTF is with the satalite we shot down? Our huge as navy we are always braging about and how strong our forces are and how much fire power we have and they say we only have 3 chances to shoot down a defenseless satalite because we only have 3 ROCKETS? LOL......

[helby]

...

[EVILUTION]

^ We are not in Iraq because of oil. If we were race gas would be alot cheaper right now.

Also.... our economy is no different than it was before Bush. Its not the presidents fault that some people have bitten off more than they can chew.

You seem so political and yet you believe the strangest things.

[TSi_II]

recession

Technically speaking, a recession happens after 2 consecutive quarters where the US's gross domestic product went into the red... It hasn't gone down once yet. The whole "economy scare" is a crock of shit if you ask me.

[TomKat]

Come on Helby. Read the posts man. The more make fun of Bush it just makes your arguments look really bad. Maybe you've been taking debate lessons from 00Evan.

We are on the verge of recession? Well if this is recession then it's not so bad. We are living high off the hog here in the states. Things are good - just look around. Brand new 10mpg vehicles all over the road. New houses being built all the time- and these aren't regular houses they are little mansions.

Bush wanted to go into Iraq. Well he got R done all right. There were a lot of reasons to go into that country. A lot more than what you listed. Oil? Yes we need oil to feed our 10mpg vehicles.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

Oil? Yes we need oil to feed our 10mpg vehicles.

You V8 Nuthugger!

[VPT]

OMG get a job your fuckers!!!!

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

OMG get a job your fuckers!!!!

Well good morning, you just wake up???

[VPT]

I was up around 10 this morning and already got paid for the day.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

I was up around 10 this morning and already got paid for the day.
i got paid this morning too, AND I'll be receiving ANOTHER paycheck as well.

[VPT]

I might get paid again as well today. I may even get paid 3 more times today if people want some parts bad enough.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

I might get paid again as well today. I may even get paid 3 more times today if people want some parts bad enough.

I dont consider getting $5-10 as being paid.

[VPT]

Me either.

[VPT]

I don't consider anything under 100 as getting paid.

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

I don't consider anything under 100 as getting paid.

$100?? my paychecks have 4 digits to the left of the period!

[VPT]

I don't consider anything under 100 as getting paid.

$100?? my paychecks have 4 digits to the left of the period!


0080.00 doesn't count

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

I don't consider anything under 100 as getting paid.

$100?? my paychecks have 4 digits to the left of the period!


0080.00 doesn't count

your right.

[ragdoll]

I don't consider anything under 100 as getting paid.

$100?? my paychecks have 4 digits to the left of the period!


0080.00 doesn't count

Man you guys are lame... but that last comment was pretty funny.

[devlish]

why don't we just whip them all out here and compare our..... check sizes. geez

[helby]

....

[Dizmm, (Old Account)]

why don't we just whip them all out

:oops:

[Greg86z28]

I am pretty sure i do not want my sont o have to grow up and deal with the problems these people have started.

OR you could pull your head out off your ass and realize the OPPORTUNITY you are giving your son by raising him in the greatest country in the world.

[TomKat]

you tell me why they sent my brother to iraqi twice if it isent for selfish idiotic reasons....

Then why in the sam hell did your brother join the army? :? Why didn't you talk him out of it?

Need I remind you we have a 100% volunteer armed forces in the U.S.

[fordssuck]

I Wish i had a bag of popcorn!

Which candidate will best insure this country's future?

[VPT]

None.

[fordssuck]

Well that sux.

[EVILUTION]

None.

So true.

I Wish i had a bag of popcorn!

HAHAHAHA! Aint that the truth... :lol:

This thread makes me giggle... :lol:

[DontStopMe]

On a serious note, where the hell do you people get reliable information about candidates? I feel like i don't know shit about any of them and can only get a bias opinion.

[ZXTUNER]

On a serious note, where the hell do you people get reliable information about candidates? I feel like i don't know shit about any of them and can only get a bias opinion.


it dont pay to know anything about any of them there all full of shit not one of them ever do what they promise so fuck em all it dont reall matter to me ill still wake up every morring and do the same old shit day after day no matter who gets in

[EVILUTION]

You can't believe a fucking word that comes out of their mouths right now. They are simply playing on peoples sensitivity.

The only way you can get to know them is research them to see how they previously voted on topics that concern you.

With only three years in the senate Obama doesn't have many controversial congressional votes which political opponents can attack. But his eight years as an Illinois state senator does show what kind of person he is.

The funny thing about Obama is he made an antiwar statement back in 2002. But since then and up until now Obama's voting record establishes that he continues to be pro-war.

--------------------------------------
1/26/05: Obama voted to confirm Condoleezza Rice for Secretary of State. Rice was largely responsible for 9/11, the Iraq War, threats of war against Iran, Syria,Venezuela and other nations. and for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent victims in unnecessary wars of her making. Roll call 2
2/15/05: Obama voted to confirm Michael Chertoff, a proponent of water-board torture, an individual connected to the financing of 9/11 and the man behind the round-up of thousands of people of Middle-Eastern descent following 9/11.
4/21/05: Obama voted to make John "Death Squad" Negroponte the National Intelligence Director. In Central America, John Negroponte was connected to death squads that murdered nuns and children in sizable quantities. He is suspected of instigating death squads while in Iraq, resulting in the current insurgency. Instead of calling for Negroponte's prosecution, Obama rewarded him by making him National Intelligence Director.
7/01/05: Obama voted for H.R. 2419, termed "The Nuclear Bill" by environmental and peace groups. It provided billions for nuclear weapons activities, including nuclear bunker buster bombs. It contains full funding for Yucca Mountain, a threat to food and water in California, Nevada, Arizona and states across America.. Roll call 172 [W]
11/15/05: Obama voted for continued war, again. Roll call 326 was the vote on the Defense Authorization Act (S1042) which kept the war and war profiteering alive, restricted the right of habeas corpus and encouraged terrorism.
2/2/06: Obama voted to extend the USA-PATRIOT's attack on the Constitution for five weeks to allow Congress time to put together the support to adopt the renewal of USA-PATRIOT. Roll call 11
6/13/06: Obama voted to commend the armed services for a bombing that killed innocent people and children and reportedly resulted in the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a person unlikely ever to have existed and who was reported killed three times previously. Michael Berg, whose son was reportedly killed by al-Zarqawi, condemned the attack and expressed sorrow over the innocent people and children killed in the bombing that Obama commended. Roll call 168 [W]
6/22/06: Obama voted against withdrawing the troops by opposing the Kerry Amendment (S. Amdt 4442 to S 2766) to the National Defense Authorization Act. The amendment, which was rejected, would have brought our troops home, ended the fighting and forced the Iraqi people to take charge of their security.
On March 28, 2007 and March 29th, 2007, he voted for cloture and passage of a bill designed to give Bush over $120 billion to continue the occupation for years to come (with a suspendable time table) and inclusive of funding that could be used to launch a war with Iran

[TomKat]

Damn Evil. Thanks for the insights. I hope Helby reads that.

[TSi_II]

:shock:

[VPT]

We are so fucked.

[helby]

...

[VPT]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8537/specialcoastergj9.jpg

[EVILUTION]

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months.

I haven't heard these words come from his lips.

Like I said earlier.... his votes are what matters and he hasn't voted in accordance with is yap. That being said neither has anyone else. I am not supporting any of these candidates.

FYI - Iraq is about the size of California. About 170,000 troops are there right now. Only 160,000 are US troops. As of right now there are only 5000 trained Iraq police officers. Do you know how many deer hunters were in the woods opening day here in WI? There were about 400,000 hunters. Everyone thinks we have our entire war machine in Iraq but the truth is there aren't that many soldiers there. Now for some even more staggering statistics.

Journalists killed - 126, 83 by murder and 43 by acts of war

Journalists killed by US Forces - 14

Iraqi Police and Soldiers Killed - 7,875

Iraqi Civilians Killed, Estimated - over 100,000, but may be much higher. Some informed estimates place Iraqi civilian casualities at over 600,000.

Iraqi Insurgents Killed, Roughly Estimated - 55,000

Non-Iraqi Contractors and Civilian Workers Killed - 546

Non-Iraqi Kidnapped - 305, including 54 killed, 147 released, 4 escaped, 6 rescued and 94 status unknown.

Daily Insurgent Attacks, Feb 2004 - 14

Daily Insurgent Attacks, July 2005 - 70

Daily Insurgent Attacks, May 2007 - 163

Estimated Insurgency Strength, Nov 2003 - 15,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, Oct 2006 - 20,000 - 30,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, June 2007 - 70,000

Iraqis Displaced Inside Iraq, by Iraq War - 2,255,000

Iraqi Unemployment Rate - 27 to 60%, where curfew not in effect

Iraqi Children Suffering from Chronic Malnutrition - 28% in June 2007

Percent of professionals who have left Iraq since 2003 - 40%

Iraqi Physicians Before 2003 Invasion - 34,000

Iraqi Physicians Who Have Left Iraq Since 2005 Invasion - 12,000

Iraqi Physicians Murdered Since 2003 Invasion - 2,000

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 10.9 in May 2007

Average Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 5.6 in May 2007

Number of Iraqi Homes Connected to Sewer Systems - 37%

Iraqis without access to adequate water supplies - 70%

Water Treatment Plants Rehabilitated - 22%

Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops - 82%

Iraqis who feel less ecure because of the occupation - 67%

Iraqis who do not have confidence in multi-national forces - 72%

[fordssuck]

So we outnumber the insurjents by more then double? Very interesting

[devlish]

number of Kurt Checks that actually read all that shit: 0 (zero)

[VPT]

Tom will come back and say no no no, the economy is doing great, look at all those yuppys riding around in suv's.

[TomKat]

Tom will come back and say no no no, the economy is doing great, look at all those yuppys riding around in suv's.

Do you consider yourself rich VPT and Helby?

Look at you two guys. I'd say you guys have it pretty darn good (especially VPT without a job) in this depression. Yeah this country is just falling apart. People are starving and homeless in the streets. :?

[VPT]

Tom will come back and say no no no, the economy is doing great, look at all those yuppys riding around in suv's.

Do you consider yourself rich VPT and Helby?

Look at you two guys. I'd say you guys have it pretty darn good (especially VPT without a job) in this depression. Yeah this country is just falling apart. People are starving and homeless in the streets. :?


Umm, yes people are staving and homeless in the streets, were you not just in chi town? Look around guy.

[Stash]

people are loosing there houseing and cars...loans are defaulting...shit isent that great.

People are losing thier houses because they took adjustable rate mortages with no money down. Then the payment jump up and they are screwed. People in this country love to play rich and live outside of thier means. Most people who are losing thier houses have nobody to blame but themselves for a poor finacial decision.

[Stash]

UM trust me I have sat in as some mortagage lender convinced someone to take out this kinda loan blah blah blah and they got fucked. People take out loans and buy houses cause they are convinced by a financial planner or mortagage officer that they can afford it...zero down...etc etc. and they got fucked. those companies..like options home lending or places like that fucked people.

This is my point, it was thier decision to take the loan. They were not forced to take it, just talked into it. I don't think too much of companies that do this to people, but consumers should do some research instead of just trusting someone. People allowed themselves to get fucked by these companies.

[Stash]

True. But, I don't see any difference between this and something like getting screwed by a car dealer. I sure there are some salesmen out there who could convice someone to spend 15k on a 95 Neon. The only situation the adjust rate seems to make sense is if you were buying a house to fix and sell quickly.

[TomKat]

There may be a recession. I just stated that if we are in a recession then a recession isn't so bad. We've all got it damn good here. Damn good.

Yes I was just in Chicago. Sorry VPT did not see any homeless people or people starving. Years ago you'd see some of that in the big cities, but not anymore. The U.S. has awesome social programs in effect and in my lifetime I have noticed them working. Even in the big cities I've visited over the years.

[VPT]

Yes they do!! Tom should come on some chi town car pick up trips with me to see how well all the homeless starving people are doing.

Tom seems very very blind to so many obvious problems with this country.

[TomKat]

OK Helby and VPT.

Show me some homeless starving people.

Not that hard of a request.

Well.

I've been through a lot of (not just the touristy areas) of Chicago, New York City, Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Los Angeles. They are hiding the homeless and starving people. :shock: GIVE ME A F-ING break.

Helby believe it or not people are noticably better off from what I've seen in just my lifetime. I've been observing this since before both of you were even born.

[TomKat]

Tom seems very very blind to so many obvious problems with this country.

I'm not saying this country doesn't have its share of problems. I'm saying things are a lot better now than they were in the 70's. Personal observation.

You need to get around more VPT (Mr. Vacation) Doesn't like to leave his house because it's too expensive.

[VPT]

There are homeless people in stevens point, do you see them Tom? You are here every day and drive threw point every day do you see the homeless people Tom?

[TomKat]

I'm from Missouri on this one VPT.

[VPT]

I'm from Missouri on this one VPT.


That why your different!

[TomKat]

I kind of figured you wouldn't get that one VPT.

Missouri is the show me state.

That being said -show me- *homeless people in Point.

I've also asked to see starving people in Point. Or did you guys miss that one.

* By homeless for the sake of this argument: People who do not have shelter with heat-bathrooms-water.

[TomKat]

OK. Will you show me some homeless and or starving people?

[austinj06]

Ask John(Altima SER), We saw a homeless guy downtown point, I dont really know all the roads in point, but i do know it was by a bridge next to the interstate just past the college going north. This was last fall....he was pushing a shopping cart with garbage bags in it. Ive never seen a homeless guy before, so ill never forget it, it was really sad to see that. I dont know maybe he was taking his garbage to the dump at 3:00am. That was the same night we saw a naked guy run down the streets and run out in front of us on HWY 10 by the spot, I also will never forget that either :? Both are true stories, I swear on the Bible.....I have no reason to lie.

[fordssuck]

mabey he was collecting cans, VPT has the same job.

[VPT]

Cans is where its at man!

[TomKat]

Still waiting. :?

[fordssuck]

My family donates food and clothes the the salvation army, every time i go there i never see "the homeless". Im not saying that they are not out there, just dont see any in point or plover, i did see one once outside of mcdonalds, everyone was giving him food, he opened up his jacket and it was full of mcdonalds food, Atleast 20 or so bags.

[TomKat]

People with no place to go. I cannopt believe you would sit there and think there is no poverty or homeless people.

People with no place to go, but wait they do have a place to go. Don't they. Salvation Army. Hmmm

00Evan learned Helby argument techniques kicking in again. Putting words in my mouth. I did not say there isn't any poverty in the U.S. Of course that depends on your definition of poverty. I asked to be shown a homeless person by my definition. Is it that difficult to come up with a homeless person?

Stilll waiting.

[VPT]

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8358/onlyinrussia3uv3.jpg

[fordssuck]

:shock: WOW, alot of anger on the forums lately

[ZXTUNER]

P.S. go Barack Obama. Time for a fucking change in this country.



mother fu%K him :roll:

[devlish]

yup... i saw a dude sleeping on those steps last fall. went down for a badger game, stayed at the big fancy hotel right on capital squaw... and saw a dude sleeping on the steps there after walking back from hockey game.

interesting.

[DontStopMe]

Jump em...

http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/player.jhtml?ml_video=&ml_collection=84113&ml_gateway=&ml_gateway_id=&ml_comedian=&ml_runtime=&ml_context=show&ml_origin_url=%2Fmotherload%2F%3Fml_collection%3D8 4113&ml_playlist=&lnk=&is_large=true[/url]

[Greg86z28]

I still think the major problems in our country economically are not because of anything our government is doing but because our generation is raised on a terrible thing called a 'credit card' (can be EXCELLENT if used properly though). But everyone lives by the idea that you don't actually need money to own anything. It's all on the credit card. Our country is fucking stupid as shit when it comes to economics. Everyone lives beyond their means.

And beyond that, I also think what is hurting our country is the mentality that you can do whatever you want. No not really. Guess what, someone still needs to clean up the shitters in the bathroom. I went to Pacelli and I swear they almost frowned upon not going to college (What do you think about that Kurt and Barubabe? Maybe I got the wrong vibe). Our country has grown into a bunch of people who either are really lazy, or are too good to do the shit work. Maybe it's just where I live down here, because I could guarantee you 95% of these kids wouldn't/be able to lift a shovel to make a living if they had to. I don't know. What do you guys think?

Granted I'm not poor, but guess what, we live in a country where you can make a difference. It's about dedication and commitment. That's what separates the successful from the people who aren't. I'm sure you've heard of the stories where people come from nothing to making it big. It's called drive to do something. It's called getting rid of the "I'll never be anything better" attitude. Not everyone can do this, but I'm sure a lot of people can.

It's hard to say it, but we will never get rid of poverty. That's just the way it is. This isn't a utopia. People need to starve, people need to just get by, people need to be in the middle and people need to be filthy rich and be wasteful.

[TomKat]

Good points Greg.

Helby - Damn guy. How am I turning this around? All I have asked is: To see a homeless person. Not that hard of a request according to you.

By the way you have totally skated around my request to see someone who is starving.

I used to get in this same argument with Norb at work. He swore up and down that there were people who were starving in Central Wisconsin, but of course he could never come up with examples.

Doesn't Madison have a Salvation Army? Is there a Hope Center Homeless Center in Madison? I bet there is. So those people sleeping on the steps of that church in Madison can go there if they wanted to.

Again - my point. In this country we have eliminated starvation and helpless homeless people. By homeless I mean people who have no shelter.

[Greg86z28]

Good points Greg.

Helby - Damn guy. How am I turning this around? All I have asked is: To see a homeless person. Not that hard of a request according to you.

By the way you have totally skated around my request to see someone who is starving.

I used to get in this same argument with Norb at work. He swore up and down that there were people who were starving in Central Wisconsin, but of course he could never come up with examples.

Doesn't Madison have a Salvation Army? Is there a Hope Center Homeless Center in Madison? I bet there is. So those people sleeping on the steps of that church in Madison can go there if they wanted to.

Again - my point. In this country we have eliminated starvation and helpless homeless people. By homeless I mean people who have no shelter.

But I think they won't take people who are drunks? Or do they? I'm not sure. None the less, I have no pity on them. That's too bad that they can't turn there lives around. This country is built upon people who want to make something out of their lives; not holding people hands and leading them to something. Although it's turning into that. But still, if you have enough drive and dedication you can do anything, even if it's "only" take your life from complete poverty to living from paycheck to paycheck, that's still something.

Our society is victimized. Everyone is a fucking victim these days. Everyone has it so bad. Cry, cry, cry, bitch, bitch, bitch. Whether you like to believe it or not, we live in the greatest country ever to set foot on this earth. The quality of life is beyond good, not matter what direction we are going. We have expectations for the future that it will be better, no matter who is in charge. Anyone who thinks different is an absolute fucking moron, hands down. I'm sick of people bitching. Guess what. If you don't like it, fucking leave. Please. It's called pride in your country. Supporting the country. Not fucking ripping down every little thing that happens.

That's too bad we have poverty and people dying. My heart pumps piss for them. That's the way it has been and that's the way it's always going to be. I don't give a flying fuck for universal health care and it will be a cold day in hell when I vote to give my money over to poor bastards who can't bust their asses to get something done. Call me selfish and a piece of shit, but I don't do fucking hand me outs. Boo hoo; I'm fucking piece of shit, hate me all you want.

I'm just sick of this victimized negative fucking attitude that I see in Madison. Grow some fucking balls or move you bunch of fucking pussy ass college city slicking pieces of shit.

[TomKat]

There are people who are in dire need, but there are also plenty of slackers who just take advantage of the help. Regargless there is plenty of help out there for those who seek it. In this country.

[EVILUTION]

They should join the Army.

[devlish]

maybe the army should just automatically recruit them. based on individual characters of course. single people, with no kids, etc. between the ages of 18-29 etc, would have the opportunity to join the army. i think that is a fair option for them Evil. maybe not be put through the rigors of basic training... but something similar. food, clothing, showers, etc... all provided.

while some may say that this will be an additional cost to the taxpayers, i don't think so. the army can supply entry level jobs for these people around the base, etc... in turn for housing/food. and give them the opportunity to learn and advance to help them get on their feet again so to speak. evil, you should talk to your superiors and get going on this. you could take a few with you this weekend when you have reserves. haha

[devlish]

ya. individually hand selected. like i said, don't bother to do basic training with them, i doubt they are motivated enough. but give them a mop & broom, show them food at the end of the hallway, and watch them clean!! :lol: ok, that came off a bit rude, but still... incentive is the best motivator.

[Greg86z28]

You guys ever see that movie Surviving The Game? I think that's the solution.

Plot Summary:
Mason, who lives on the streets, wants to cease his life when on the same day his two best friends die: His dog and an older man with whom he shared his food and roof. Just in time Cole, from a charity organization, can prevent his suicide and also offers him a quite well paid job as servant for a hunting party in the Rocky Mountains. Mason accepts the job and flies with them to a hut in the wilderness where they prepare everything for the four rich businessmen who want to hunt something special. Mason does not yet know that he is the victim of their sports

[EVILUTION]

I don't feel sorry for people that have addictions. I don't feel sorry for people that over extended their credit line. I don't feel sorry for people the refuse to "suck it up and deal". Everyone has problems but not everyone becomes a freeloader. Even when the country is at its financial peak there will still be system sponges.

The fact is one can live on minimum wage. The fact is there are plenty of jobs available to those who want to work.

If you are homeless and in Wisconsin then you are fucking retarded. If I were homeless I would choose San Diego or Hawaii. Or... if you plan to survive like a mountain man get the fuck out of town and out in the woods.

There are a million options out there. The US is the furthest thing from an 3rd world nation that you can get and Wisconsin already gives far too many motherfuckers a free ride.

This country is doing very well. Now if there were a shitload of people willing to relocate and work their ass off but couldn't find work then there would be a problem. But the truth is most of the unemployed don't want to put in an honest days work for an honest days pay.

[devlish]

But the truth is most of the unemployed don't want to put in an honest days work for an honest days pay. hence why the mexicans are getting those jobs, and americans are unemployed and complaining that "should have been paid more"

evil hit the nail on the head... fair days work for a fair days wages.

[EVILUTION]

I feel sorry for the mill worker who lost his good paying job and lost all his benifits...and has a family to feed and the best job he can find is mcdonalds...not cool ya know. those kinda things suck.

That mill worker had to know his job would come to an end. Those union guys have been getting over paid for years and years. I'm in the reserves with a few and they all knew its was coming.

One of those guys said his job was to watch a monitor to make sure all the green lights stay green. If the light never changed to red, he did nothing but watch TV. He did that for 15 years and made over $40k/year.

The truth.... over paid and underworked. Being aware that was the situation they should have saved for a rainy day or found a job at a company that wasn't practicing financial suicide.

Same guy had a snowmobile, bass boat, brand new 4x4 truck, house, a history of having 1-to-many, and no savings at all. I do not feel sorry for him. He doesn't even feel sorry for himself.

[EVILUTION]

Ok that guy got fucked but he can't say he didn't see that coming. They have been laying off people for 10 years. It was simply a matter of time before waste and abuse would end the "good times". You can thank the Union for that.

[Greg86z28]

and has a family to feed and the best job he can find is mcdonalds

And that sir is the pathetic mindset that most American's have. Let's all feel sorry for everyone.

He still lives in the greatest country in the world and he STILL will be able to put food on the table. Sure, life may have went from a big house and boat to living paycheck to paycheck, but like I said, you work your ass off and you can overcome anything. It's all about mindset. You can feel sorry for yourself or you can realize other people in the world have it a lot worse than you. It's something no one in this country does.

[Greg86z28]

Ok that guy got fucked but he can't say he didn't see that coming. They have been laying off people for 10 years. It was simply a matter of time before waste and abuse would end the "good times". You can thank the Union for that.

Whether it's union or not, if you loose your job, you suck it up and move on.

[devlish]

unions are for pussies that cannot take care of themselves

[Greg86z28]

I'm part of a union since I work at WPS. I don't know what it does for me. It costs me 40 bucks a month or something.

[Pointdsm]

Your not part of a union, but you still have to pay union dues.

[Greg86z28]

Your not part of a union, but you still have to pay union dues.

Mmm maybe you're right. I guess I never read in to it much since it's just summer time shit. Damn that sucks. I need the union in case I'm about to get canned. ;) So how's employment looking? Good hopefully.

[TSi_II]

That homesless fuck took that $5 and bought a couple cans of Steel Reserve. They're all the same, useless sonsofbitches that won't get a job because their life is 'just too hard'. Give me a fucking break. Save your money and buy yourself a sandwich, they sure as fuck won't.

[TSi_II]

I'd have compassion if ONE of them changed my mind. Every time I see one and they ask for money for food, I ask them what kind of sandwich they want and they walk away. This has happened many, many times.

I do care about humans, but ones who try and make an impact on society, not those who live life day to day as a free loader. They simply just do not want to try and bring themself out, they must like it or something. Wal*Mart is always hiring, but they must be too good for that job. Going to salvation army and taking a shower and getting semi-clean clothes on can't be that hard. Our government wastes a lot of money trying to help them out, they should get jobs, not support Annheiuser-Bush Brewing Company.

[VPT]

We should send them all out to iraq and give them guns!

[Greg86z28]

Ok that guy got fucked but he can't say he didn't see that coming. They have been laying off people for 10 years. It was simply a matter of time before waste and abuse would end the "good times". You can thank the Union for that.

Whether it's union or not, if you loose your job, you suck it up and move on.
you cant tell me a guy with 2 kids a wife and mortgage and car payments is going to work at fucking McDonald's

You do what you have to do to survive. If that means you work at McDonalds, that means you do it. Maybe you wouldn't, but I sure as hell would, if that's what it takes to be the man and put food on the table. Life's ALWAYS more difficult for someone else in this world. No matter how bad you think you have it, someone's got it worse.

Why can no one ever value anything but money? He still has the two most important things in his life: his 2 kids and wife. So what if he needs to sell his house and cars, to move into a smaller house. It's called dealing with the hand you're being dealt. You can bitch and moan, become a victim, or you can grow a pair and get shit done.

It's all about perspective. You can see your glass as half empty or half full. You can look at loosing your job as the end of the world or you can see it as I still have the things I value most in life.

[devlish]

Every time I see one and they ask for money for food, I ask them what kind of sandwich they want and they walk away. This has happened many, many times. good idea. next time i'll do that, then go buy them a sandwhich. at least i know my money will be put to good use!!

thanks for the idea.

[TSi_II]

Yeah, unless they try and sell their sandwich to another homeless for beer money... lol.